Adam's embryo, a few things concerning it...

[Reichu [ANF]]

Holy poop on a stick... I don't know if I'm grasping at straws, but maybe, just maybe, the connection between "Akira" and Kaworu isn't just some silly idea we've been having fun with. If you watch episode #12, what do you notice? We see Akira, but not all of him. What don't they show?

His face.

Doesn't this seem strange? NGE doesn't bother showing us much of the other major behind-the-scenes players (such as Papa Langley and Frau-Doktor), but they TEASE us with Akira. The frame is cropped at the crucial place. Do you think that maybe, just maybe, this was done completely on purpose?

Think about it this way: Kaworu is in the OP. They knew he was going to be there. They knew he was going to be the Final Messenger. The 17th Angel. The final Angel has a human face. And whose face might it be?

Remember Misato's "revenge". She's "paying" the Angels back for killing the dad she never really loved. I'll have to think about this a little more, and accomodate it into my unraveling of Second Impact and the Kaworu/Adam/Tabris (and possibly /Akira) dynamic. But I think the idea that Kaworu is in the image of Misato's father is another idea that just makes too much damn sense to be an accident. Especially since we know that Kaworu's origin had something to do with contact between Adam and a human.

Originally posted on: 25-Dec-2005, 12:27 GMT

[Magami No ER [ANF]]

Oh, we did think of this as more then a silly idea when we first made the connections...reading through this old thing. Niow that's just even more info to play with.
Anyway, A-chan approves.

(Only part of my orginal pic I had time to do properly)

[img]http://www.evageeks.org/ANF-Archive/images/../images/HUE1CS3II8AE53OUC3O77UMG6-akirasan0hf.jpg [/img]

Originally posted on: 25-Dec-2005, 12:39 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

And one other thing that immediately occured to me, just moments after I swore I was done with the keyboard for this morning. For me, this might just be the clincher.

Again, the thread Anno uses to tie NGE together comes into play. Echoes. Mirrors. Puzzle pieces that fit together to form a cohesive whole..

We know that Rei and Kaworu are complements. Another thing we know is that Misato and Shinji are connected: Anno identifies them as the central two characters. The OP shows us this, in a sense, as it concludes with both Misato and Shinji looking up defiantly at the sky. (This was noted in the OP commentary we did.) I'd have to reflect a little more to take this idea full circle, but, for the moment, I don't need to. This premise is all we need to proceed.

Let me present this as a mathematical formula, in a sense...

Rei - KAWORU
YUI - ?
MOTHER - ?
Shinji - Misato

The show tells us what we need to know to bridge the gap between "Rei" and "Shinji". The bridge between Kaworu and Misato is less obvious, but it is definitely there. Kaworu is linked to Second Impact -- this is the tidbit that Hyuga digs up for Misato. I don't think it is any accident that both Misato and her father are, similarly, linked to Second Impact. Again, this is a connection established as early as the OP. See: http://www.evageeks.org/op/op_2.html

I won't be putting the images up, since that will keep me from sleep even longer, so I'll walk you through the procession, even though it's probably not necessary.

067: Misato, shirtless, covering her scar
079: Closeup of Misato wearing her pendant
068: The words "SECOND IMPACT"
069: Adam, mere moments before her overloaded Super Solenoid causes a Big Boom.
070: The aftermath of 069.

Sure, Kaworu isn't the next item in this procession, but they really couldn't use him twice in the OP -- it makes sense. Once was enough for a mysterious boy whose role would not become apparent until the very end.

But think about this, as well. Shinji and Misato's opposite-sexed parents and their connections to the two Sources of Life. Yui's work involved Lilith. Akira's work involved Adam. And it is NO ACCIDENT that this happened:

Yui + Contact Experiment --> Rei
Akira + Contact Experiment --> Kaworu

That's it. I'm sold.

Originally posted on: 25-Dec-2005, 12:50 GMT

[Magami No ER [ANF]]

Who knows what could've resulted if the Kaworu-cat angel theme was still present by the end.

Originally posted on: 25-Dec-2005, 12:54 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

Oh... you aren't by chance referring to the "human cat" thing that some couples... erm, I think I'm going to go to sleep now. I think if the insanity I've been subjected to recently continues, I'll find some way to thematically prove that the Katsuragi's marriage really DID fall apart because the guy who dug Akira out of some dusty, lonely corner of a university... helped the man discover the merit of his Super Solenoid theory because... because... they needed it to trigger Second Impact...

Crap, if we want to go that far, this Keel/Akira thing could be considered yet another echo of the Gendo/Naoko and Juli/Kyoko thing!

But, uh, I guess I'll finish those thoughts up when I get to my ginormous Second Impact thesis.

Sleep. FOR REAL!!! LET ME SLEEP YOU DAMN MUSES!!! :sobs:

Originally posted on: 25-Dec-2005, 13:03 GMT

[Mr. Tines [ANF]]

Holy poop on a stick... I don't know if I'm grasping at straws, but maybe, just maybe, the connection between "Akira" and Kaworu isn't just some silly idea we've been having fun with. If you watch episode #12, what do you notice? We see Akira, but not all of him. What don't they show?

His face.

This is getting to be puzzle solving of the level that OMF talks about... so, let me be the one with the boring practicalities...

As he's shown as one of the "walking wounded", if he was involved in the actual Contact, Katsuragi-hakase is the only one of the three who got to walk away from it, even if not far or fast enough to escape the side-effects.

Originally posted on: 25-Dec-2005, 13:51 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

This is getting to be puzzle solving of the level that OMF talks about...

Is this a good thing or a bad thing? I haven't been around lately, so my memory is a little, uh, fuzzy.

As he's shown as one of the "walking wounded", if he was involved in the actual Contact, Katsuragi-hakase is the only one of the three who got to walk away from it, even if not far or fast enough to escape the side-effects.

Another thought I had about his wounds: Misato claims that otousan sacrificed himself to save her. But the fact that he passed up an escape capsule is not the sacrifice she can be talking about, since, by that point, he was already screwed. I'm thinking this was something behind-the-scenes, and that he might have had a chance to get away after all, but didn't... and that is why Misato feels so indebted.

Now, because I am tired and coming off some rather bizarre dreams (being awakened with a start by the Yuletide festivities outside my room :humbug: ), who persactly are the "three" you are talking about...? I just want to make sure I understand where YOU'RE going with this.

And, uh... what do you mean, "if"?

Originally posted on: 25-Dec-2005, 16:53 GMT

[Mr. Tines [ANF]]

Is this a good thing or a bad thing? I haven't been around lately, so my memory is a little, uh, fuzzy.

Good, in that you seem to have picked up and turned over a few pieces and found a plausible fit.

Now, because I am tired and coming off some rather bizarre delta sleep, who persactly are the "three" you are talking about...? I just want to make sure I understand where YOU'RE going with this.

Kyoko, Yui and Katsuragi-hakase in reverse chronological order of their Contacts.

Originally posted on: 25-Dec-2005, 16:58 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

I think it might have something to do with the fact that Katsuragi-hakase (Akira is so much shorter ) got himself involved in something of a SLIGHTLY different nature. This was a physical contact, not a Salvage Operation (in disguise or otherwise). Although we don't know the details, we know the results... or, at least, I think I have a pretty good idea. I'll be sharing more later. I think the priorities today are (A) more sleep, (B) a little Yuletide cheer, and (C) finishing up the first "revelations" thread.

Originally posted on: 25-Dec-2005, 17:04 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

And, oh yah, before I forget. Another example of the Mirror Syndrome.

#21: Yui's Contact Experiment. Who does she bring along?

"I want to show the promising future to my child."
"Mother was smiling..."

#12: The aftermath of the Katsuragi Expedition. Who did Katsuragi bring with him down to Antarctica...?

Hmm... Did he perhaps have his own idea of a "bright future" that he wanted to show Misato...?

Another thing I've started to think about is the apparent lack of a contact between Misato and Kaworu. Considering the whole picture more fully, I'm actually suspecting that NGE does not completely neglect this front AFTER all. It's not only the clue about Kaworu that Hyuga gives Misato, and how that clue just happens to be such an overwhelming part of her own backstory. I've also been toying with the notion that the scene they added to #24', with Kaworu having a Conversation With Nobody, also serves to satisfy this need, in the only real way the show could without getting itself completely off track... Hint:

Did he notice me?
No, impossible.

Again, the fleeting, knowing eye contact that I mention in the Rei/Kaworu thread. A silent affirmation that Misato might never get around to admitting to herself.

Originally posted on: 25-Dec-2005, 23:20 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

God dammit... It never frelling ends...

After mere moments of further "flashing images", I think I finally have an idea of the full picture, with regard to Kaworu and Misato. The "interchange" in #24' was added to emphasize what was already there. Watch episode #24, and pay very close attention to Misato. Kaworu seems to instill, in Misato and Misato alone, a rather suspicious "emotional weariness". Sure, this kid is an enigma on the professional level, with regard to his Children status, but I think he's plaguing Misato on a much deeper one. Take a look, and see for yourself.

Is it an accident that Kaworu represents, for Misato, the end of the line? The "Final Messenger", Ritsuko says. Even after she does, Misato doesn't quite "get it" until Hyuga reads off the MAGI readings for her.

(1) Hyuga "Pattern Blue! It's an Angel!"
(2) Misato closeup. She cries out, "What did you say!?" Meaning, she cannot believe this. Or doesn't want to.
(3) Next: Kaworu and EVA-02.
(4) Misato, looking suspiciously troubled. "An Angel? That boy--?" Are the pieces coming together? Is she letting them?
(5) CLOSEUP OF KAWORU'S FACE, with EVA-02 behind him.

Misato just can't contain her reaction to him. A reaction of the sort that only she expresses. She doesn't tell us what is triggering it, but we are armed with EVERYTHING we need to know to figure it all out. Misato tells us in #12, #15, and #25.

Her relationship with her father goes the exact opposite direction than Shinji's relationship with Yui. I won't get into the latter -- not the place -- but think about this.

- A dedication to one man -- the man who gave her life, in more than one sense -- whom she hates.

He is killed.

- A dedication to another man -- a man who gave her unconditional love she couldn't accept because of the turbulent waters within herself.

He is killed.

- A dedication to killing the "people" (as Rei most revealingly referred to them) called Angels. A boy who seems eerily familiar. The final Angel.

He is killed.

The Father-Misato-Angel-Kaworu element is thus satisfied.

A further interesting thematic detail: All of these deaths are for her own sake. Or, at least, are ones she stands to benefit from.

Originally posted on: 26-Dec-2005, 00:03 GMT

[OMF [ANF]]

The Kaworu-Katsurugi connection is a very tenacious one, and is in a very real sense, seriously contridicted by Katsurugi's carrying of Misato to the capsule.

It's unlikely that Misato saw anything in Kaworu other than a mysterious boy. To be noted here is her complete lack of mourning at the end of episode #24. Couple this with the fact that unlike Shinji, Misato most likely had access to her father's photograph, and had been examining Kaworu's file for some time prior to the descent to Terminal Dogma.

Her tone in the lake scene does not carry across any connotations other than a dismissal of Kaworu having noticed her.

Her quick conclusion that Kaworu is an angel is simply a conjecture of the facts. Namelt that the suspicious boy with mysterious powers has come to Nerv, and now Unit 02 has been annexed from within. It's not rocket science to make the deductive leap.

Misato suspects Kaworu. That much is certain. But it is clear she suspects him in the context of "The Mystery"; the information she has gained from Kaji, and possibly from Ritsuko's tour. This is confirmed when she questions Ritsuko on Kaworu. She goes to Ritsuko, and not any internal memories, to find out not who, but what Kaworu is.

Originally posted on: 26-Dec-2005, 03:50 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

Um... No offense, Maths Freak, but did you read any of the proofs I provided? Your assessment is operating from the outlook that the stakes that hold up the tent of NGE ought to be burnt: Not only do the supports go by-by, the entire tent is up in flames, too.

And how on Earth does Katsuragi saving Misato knock down this tower I have built of, I think, material a bit sturdier than playing cards?

Don't jump the gun. The mystery of 2I hasn't been cracked yet. Though I have faith it will happen. And this is a BIG part of doing so. Immeasurably big.

Remember everything I have said. The answers in NGE not only involve not looking for what is not there -- BUT ACKNOWLEDGING EVERYTHING YOU ARE (and are not) SHOWN.

Originally posted on: 26-Dec-2005, 05:25 GMT

[Mr. Tines [ANF]]

The Kaworu-Katsurugi connection is a very tenacious one, and is in a very real sense, seriously contridicted by Katsurugi's carrying of Misato to the capsule.

Reichu is definitely being tenacious; but I think that it's "tenuous" that you are looking for here.

Wording aside, it is this incident, that - well, let's call him Akira for brevity's sake - that he was, in this interpretation, able to walk away from Contact with Adam to be able to carry Misato to the capsule; when we also know that contact with an "unformatted" Eva rendered the contacter hors de combat.

Originally posted on: 26-Dec-2005, 20:27 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

Well, Adam wasn't unformatted, was she? Although it's possible she was carrying somebody who...

Er, nevermind me... That theory is still in the works. (And if it bears fruit, it will make that much-disputed comment from Kaworu all the more meaningful.)

Originally posted on: 26-Dec-2005, 09:04 GMT

[OMF [ANF]]

Tenuous yes that was it.

This mystery essentially stems from Misato's presence in antarctica during second impact. The proposed Katsurugi theory proposes that Misato was to be part of a contact experiment involving her father, whose infusion with Adam resulted in Kaworu, much as Yui's contact with Unit 01 resulted in Rei. However, there are several problems with this, as mentioned above.

But clearly Misato's presence in Antarctica needs explaining. Can we do it? The explanation may be more succinct than one might have thought.

What do we know for certain about Misato? We know that her mother in fact divorced her father (eps #12), and one can assume that given Dr. Katsurugi's distance from his family that Misato's was placed in her mother's custody? This is almost certain.

So how did Misato come to be in Antarctica? Visitation rights? It does not seem likely. But what might be likely is that Misato is in Antarctica, but is not in the custody of her father.

But what would her mother be doing in Antarctica? Well, it has been assummed that Dr. Katsurugi was to make a contact experiment, but this has problems as we see him carrying Misato away. But we know, to a large degree of certainty, that in every other case of contact with Evas and driving souls within were the mothers, of the children involved.

The pieces might fit. But it would rest on the fate of Misato's mother. Are we informed of her fate during the course of the series?

Originally posted on: 26-Dec-2005, 15:54 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

OMF, I think you're making too many assumptions: You're deciding how "valid" my connect-the-dot work is according to your own preconceptions about the Adam contact experiment, and this, I think, is a mistake. Much like Misato and the others watching Kaworu show off his powers in disbelief, you must first accept what you are shown, no matter how hard it might be to swallow -- and THEN proceed to figure out how it all works, based upon your observations. (This is also the way that science works.) I think you're thinking too hard about all this, instead of just letting yourself follow the trail of hints NGE has left for not only you, but anybody else who cares to acknowledge it...

By this point, I am essentially CONVINCED that this was all planned. "Nothing in NGE happens by accident", and Kaworu being in the image of Misato's father is thematic consumation of the VERY VERY BIG kind. It is something that has been building for the ENTIRE SERIES, and it brings Misato's relationship with the Angels and Second Impact, not to mention her parallelism with Shinji, FULL CIRCLE. Denying it is like denying every other revelation that NGE provides with the same manner of storytelling -- and, like I said earlier, that attitude is what brings down an otherwise VERY tightly-pitched tent.

Originally posted on: 26-Dec-2005, 17:37 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

Ahhh... I have an NPC-style expansion for the end of a prior post.

----------------

Did he notice me?
No, impossible.

Again, the fleeting, knowing eye contact that I mention in the Rei/Kaworu thread. A silent affirmation that Misato might never get around to admitting to herself. This is used exactly the same way as at the end, with Rei and Kaworu's eyes meeting for that one crucial moment, although, certainly, we don't get the same amount of "payoff". I suspect that this is because, ultimately, Shinji's story is what has become more important at this point in the game (consider: Misato/2I, Shinji/3I), so his "other half" takes a back seat. The exploration of the Kaworu-Misato dynamic can thus only be acknowledged in a proportionally smaller way than that of Rei-Shinji, because otherwise it would, like I said, get the show off the track it was at that point on. (It also doesn't help that Kaworu is only around for one episode, along with "cameos" in two #26' scenes.) So, it all makes perfect sense.

Originally posted on: 27-Dec-2005, 00:19 GMT

[Magami No ER [ANF]]

In the end...where Shinji and Misato are at the lakeshore, it would've been nice to see more of Mistao's facial reactions as she said those things to Shinji concerning Kaworu. (I myself haven't seen the DVDs in a while, so my memory's fuzzy on some of your connections.)

Originally posted on: 27-Dec-2005, 00:38 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

I haven't considered that scene... I'll have to watch the rest of Misato Ver. 1.0's lifespan, post the death of her Father Reborn #2, with these newfound revelations in mind.

By this point, my mind pretty much considers the Misato-Kaworu connection to be rock-solid. One thing I am less certain about is the Akira/Keel angle (which Shin-seiki has expressed certain "concerns" towards), so no one is at all obligated to take that as anything but perversely intriguing fangirl whimsy until I re-review the material that led to the idea in the first place. A lot of my prior hunches, once considered veritably insane by the norm*, have been proving their merit over my time here, so it is always possible that this one, however dubious it might seem at first, may bear similar fruit.

Oh dear... That metaphor just appeared in the absolutely wrong place at the wrong time... :guffaws:

In any case, I decided to have a little fun by writing a "speculative dialogue" (as I am apt to do)...

-----------------

Kyoto University, in the time leading up to Second Impact. Keel, who has been hanging out in Japan hoping to tap its bountiful intellectual resources, converses with one of his fellow Seele, a professor at the institute. Just to be cute, we'll name this nobody "Tsubaki".

Tsubaki "So have you found someone who will be able to pave the road to Second Impact for us, Keel?"
Keel "I think I have. In fact, he's been hiding right beneath our noses."
Tsubaki "Is that so?"
Keel "Very much so. Taken any excursions to the Department for Advanced Energy lately, Tsubaki-sensei?"
Tsubaki "I can't say that I have."
Keel "You'll find him there, in a dusty little corner."
Tsubaki "Oh?"
Keel "Professor Katsuragi. I could tell from our very first conversation that he is a very fragile man. Very troubled. But I've seen his work. He is brilliant. His tunnel vision and persistence have led him to break the threshold of all other contemporary studies."
Tsubaki "Then what is he still doing there?"
Keel ":subtle but insidious grin: He is a mockery in his field."
Tsubaki ":raises eyebrow:"
Keel "That is the fate of many pioneers, Tsubaki-sensei. When a single man is leading the revolution, of course the others who have fallen behind will punish him for their own blindness."
Tsubaki "So how can he service us?"
Keel "His theoretical construct is the Super Solenoid. The double coil. According to him, this structure is the key to endless energy. But, does it remind you of anything?"
Tsubaki (considers this) "…Fascinating. Can he be recruited?"
Keel "He is a family man, it seems. It may take a little work before we can break him away from his 'obligations' and nudge him down towards that ice-filled sphere that will provide him with True Paradise. For however brief a time. But, as I said, he is very fragile and does a poor job of masking his own weaknesses. I do not think that I will need any assistance 'recruiting' him."
Tsubaki "That is good. I hope you keep me and the others informed. We will continue to herd the rest of the sheep into the pen."
Keel "The road to human salvation is full of sacrifices."
Tsubaki "Indeed."
Keel "And it will ultimately end with our own. But, until then, we are needed to guide those who have not yet seen the road that humanity must follow — the only road that we have not ourselves destroyed. Even if some must first die for the end to be reached."
Tsubaki "Aye, for the greater good."
Keel "The greater good is all that matters in the end."

--------------------------

* Which is not really inconsistent with the impression my "less restrained" side leaves with most people, even after they get to know me.

Originally posted on: 27-Dec-2005, 04:13 GMT