The Official Fem-Kaworu Thread

[TriLink]

This is Anno's show, not yours. As such he can do whatever we wants whether you agree with it or not. If you want to ignore facts stated in the show because they don't fit your definition of what should be then I see no point in continuing this discussion.

I did take this a little off topic (sorry), but the point I was making is that the Angels, although very close to human, are still genetically different from us. And as such anything is possible. And your right...this is Anno's show. But somehow it's okay to debate the gender of Kawrou, again, something that is stated again and again as being male, but not okay to debate the humanity of the angels? I think that 99.89% isn't enough to make them human (sub-human perhaps), and you obviously disagree. I've always enjoyed this aspect of NGE, no two fans see it the same way. Everything is open to interpratation and saying somethings are okay to debate and others aren't dosen't make sense.

[Reichu]

But somehow it's okay to debate the gender of Kawrou

If you're a dork and have nothing better to do.

something that is stated again and again as being male, but not okay to debate the humanity of the angels?

It's not quite the same thing.

The Angels are, superficially, not-so-human-looking. By default they'd be treated as bizarre polymorphous lifeforms. Their nature as a type of human is the subject of a huge exposition (see #25') which the show has been building up to with the percentage bit, Sandalphon's immature state, and the fact that Adam, their "mother", is "the first human" (and her "copies" are "human", as well).

NGE just redefines "human" to include a broader range of entities; and "we humans" can be more specifically referred to as the Lilim.

Now, Kaworu's bio-sex is a "default detail", something 'readily apparent' and 'obvious', around which no Big Heap Mystery is spun. To put it under scrutiny, one would need to come up with a good reason, or, at least, the next best thing.

For any new arrivals who enjoy masochism: The arguably hallucinogenic thought process that produced "fem-Kaworu" in the first place is detailed in the locked "Kaworu XX" thread and elsewhere.

[Trigger's Elysium]

@ Trigger's: Then why is Adam referred to as "Mother"?? Just because it's who gave birth to them?

Pretty much, I wouldn't deem it wrong to assume that. Adam's a male name, anyway. Anyway, cosmetic wise, it should be obvious that the person who's identity is "Kaworu" who's cosmetic image is defined by his bishounen looks, etc, shouldn't be treated as the same gender of which Adam may or may not be; he has a penis, by his looks has a 99.9999(etc)% chance of having a male anatomy, as Shinji obviously recognized it. Rei has vaginas on her palms during EoE cause she's a chick. The fact that we don't SEE Kaworu's palms doesn't mean that we should automatically assume he/she/it/whatever does have vaginas on (it)'s palms.

If you're a dork and have nothing better to do.

Tell me about it. I've just been arguing whether or not a fictional anime character has vaginas on his palms or not.

[Reichu]

Adam's a male name, anyway.

And Naoko Akagi named her supercomputers after three wise men, even though one of them represents "Mother" and another "Woman".

Welcome to "Evangelion".

Anyway, cosmetic wise, it should be obvious that the person who's identity is "Kaworu" who's cosmetic image is defined by his bishounen looks, etc, shouldn't be treated as the same gender of which Adam may or may not be;

Gender is not the same as biological sex, even though the terms get interused a lot. The idea that Kaworu is 'psychologically' female/maternal enjoys a following that the zany "fem-Kaworu" does not.

In terms of the fem-Kaworu idea, Kaworu's outwardly male appearance is a non-issue, as it's directly addressed by her bizarre pedigree. (Adam + Some Lucky Guy = ???? = Profit!!!)

has a 99.9999(etc)% chance of having a male anatomy, as Shinji obviously recognized it.

What Shinji did or did not see is, truly, one of NGE's greatest mysteries.

he has a penis

Judging from the evidence in the show, Kaworu is as smooth as a porpoise. Kyufufufu.

Rei has vaginas on her palms during EoE cause she's a chick. The fact that we don't SEE Kaworu's palms doesn't mean that we should automatically assume he/she/it/whatever does have vaginas on (it)'s palms.

The things on Rei's palms are the Doors of Guf, and Adam has them, as well -- they manifest during the 2I proceedings. But since Adam is non-mammalian, I'd expect that hers look a bit more boring than GNR's.

Now, take a moment to imagine Doors of Guf popping open on Giant Naked Kaworu's palms...

[Trigger's Elysium]

And Naoko Akagi named her supercomputers after three wise men, even though one of them represents "Mother" and another "Woman".

Good point. But since Kaworu's lilim body is male, why shouldn't Adam be a male? Supercomputers don't have set genders.

I like how you keep on mentioning this even though, judging from the evidence in the show, Kaworu is as smooth as a porpoise. Kyufufufu.

Having a manchest with his male voice and general male mannerisms does indeed generally imply a ponos.

The things on Rei's palms are the Doors of Guf, and Adam has them, as well -- they manifest during the 2I proceedings. But since Adam is non-mammalian, I'd expect that hers look a bit more boring than GNR's.

Now, take a moment to imagine Doors of Guf popping open on Giant Naked Kaworu's palms...

Thanks, you just gave me the unsettling imagery of a chamber of Guf opening in his anus. Thanks a lot. As males don't have vaginas, I suppose there might be another way in there that's less exotic than the birth canal, preferably not in the butt, but then again, the symbolism would be shot, and you raise another good point. Who knows, for all I know or care, they may both be asexual but choose to take on a certain sex to get the job done. This is Evangelion, after all. Nothing makes sense! =D

[Trigger's Elysium]

Gender is not the same as biological sex, even though the terms get interused a lot. The idea that Kaworu is 'psychologically' female/maternal enjoys a following that the zany "fem-Kaworu" does not.

In terms of the fem-Kaworu idea, Kaworu's outwardly male appearance is a non-issue, as it's directly addressed by her bizarre pedigree. (Adam + Some Lucky Guy = ???? = Profit!!!)

You're making me start believing that they're completely asexual, now. Though I suppose i'm just arguing the biological sex of Kaworu, then. Cause Rei and Kaworu are obviously female and male, respectively. *shrug*

[Reichu]

But since Kaworu's lilim body is male, why shouldn't Adam be a male?

Because she's a mama and Kaworu is a hideous bastard-child that resulted from some undisclosed Lilim doing naughty things to her.

Having a manchest with his male voice and general male mannerisms does indeed generally imply a ponos.

I don't think there's anything particularly male about Kaworu's mannerisms. His overall personality is somewhat "androgynous".

And again, the fem-Kaworu idea addresses such things as the secondary sexual characteristics that we think of as "male", but aren't so restricted once you break into Adam's side of the family. And Kaworu does seem to have Adam genes in there somewhere.

Thanks, you just gave me the unsettling imagery of a chamber of Guf opening in his anus. Thanks a lot.

lolwut

The Chamber of Guf is, like, a pocket dimension; where did "anus" enter the equation?

[Defectron]

Rei has vaginas on her palms during EoE cause she's a chick.

The palm vaginas were there because the souls needed a way to get inside her body. Anyway the reason why they looked like vaginas and not just plain old holes is because Anno wanted to throw in some extra symbolism in this case (souls = sperm= new existence). Disregarding symbolism, I'm not sure if those could be looked at as the same sort of organs as female genetalia, although in a very abstarct sense they did serve the same purpose so I suppose their close enough in that respect. Maybe they should be referred to as quantum vaginas?

Judging from the evidence in the show, Kaworu is as smooth as a porpoise. Kyufufufu.

Yeah but so is everyone else both male and female as long as their on camera (with the exception of Ramiel)

[Reichu]

I suppose i'm just arguing the biological sex of Kaworu, then. Cause Rei and Kaworu are obviously female and male, respectively. *shrug*

Or if you're me, you are deeply in love with the notion that Kaworu is the horrible hybrid bastard-child of Adam and Dr. Katsuragi, and a weird young woman who looks mostly like Dad and has her mama's penchant for "masculine" secondary sexual characteristics, and her nude appearance in EoE is not censored (MWA HAH HAH), and threads like this have no logical motivation behind them.

The palm vaginas were there because the souls needed a way to get inside her body.

More specifically, back into the Chamber of Guf, wherever exactly Lilith keeps her.

Maybe they should be referred to as quantum vaginas?

The little clitorides are feeling rather left out here.

Judging from the evidence in the show, Kaworu is as smooth as a porpoise. Kyufufufu.

Yeah but so is everyone else both male and female as long as their on camera (with the exception of Ramiel)

Someone who gets half of vis DNA from Adam is not someone to be trusted.

[Mr. Tines]

Supercomputers don't have set genders.

But engrams taken from Akagi Naoko using the Personality Transfer OS surely do.

Having a manchest with his male voice and general male mannerisms does indeed generally imply a ponos.

That's "Delicious Flat Chest" to you; which normally associates with vag〇〇〇

Thanks, you just gave me the unsettling imagery of a chamber of Guf opening in his anus.

Technically, that'd be a cloaca.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

But somehow it's okay to debate the gender of Kawrou

Have I been doing such a thing? I don't recall that I have, so I fail to see how that comment can be applied to me.

[Reichu]

Have I been doing such a thing? I don't recall that I have, so I fail to see how that comment can be applied to me.

You should. It's great fun.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

You should. It's great fun.

That's your thing, not mine.

[Reichu]

Only MaggotMaster is allowed to give me the finger.

Your punishment shall be an extensive manicure and makeover. The process will not end until you are a veritable trap. With a Japanese school-girl uniform and everything.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

Sue me, I missed when I made that reply.

[Rawinder]

Kaworu is a male. Adam is an asexual male.

The end.

[TriLink]

Kaworu is a male. Adam is an asexual male.

The end.

FOR THE LAST TIME, ADAM IS NOT A GIR...wait...what did you say? :shock:

[Reichu]

Kaworu is a male. Adam is an asexual male.

The end.

:stares quietly and waits for the earth beneath her and the various Reichu-zombies to start shifting:

Hmm. I think you must have mispronounced one of the words in your incantation, or something. Maybe you didn't have enough MP. I dunno. :shrugs:

Also, I have an embarassing confession to make...

Let it be known that I am an asexual female hermaphrodite cowgirl trap with special eunuch features. I've had seven children (three the "normal way", two parthenogenetically, and two by impregnating other men), and, as a result of surviving prostate cancer, I need to take hormones to combat the effects of menopause and increase my previously nonexistent sperm count. In addition, I hold a position as lesbian odalisque at Khara Palace, where my cloaca is complemented on a regular basis. No, seriously......

That is to say, "An oxymoron is not a beast of burden with stunted mental capacity." (Actually, I think it's a type of archaeobacter, but nevermind.)

Ultimately, the only thing that is really important here is that you are not going through puberty. But, I am.

I need to stop before I kill myself.

[BobBQ]

Kaworu is a male. Adam is an asexual male.

The end.

(Pokes Rawinder.)

Ni!

[Anonymous_Evafan]

Does anyone take him seriously?