The starting scene of Episode 25'- what's the use of it?

[chiefen]

I'm Buck and I'm here to fuck.

[Executor]

i personally dont think that the scene added anything to the movie besides "WTFrick?!"

Trust me Im sure anno wanting to leave us with one more mind fuck for the road had a lot to do with it

I'd definatly go with this.
Chiefien: Good for you.

[DatDude]

i personally dont think that the scene added anything to the movie besides "WTFrick?!"

Trust me Im sure anno wanting to leave us with one more mind fuck for the road had a lot to do with it

I'd definatly go with this.
Chiefien: Good for you.

Wow I'm not normaly believed around here when I say that. Thanks Ex.

[Ornette]

I'm sure everyone can agree that he had "mindfuck" in mind for most of EoE, but I doubt that was the only purpose served nor only reason for such. I'd agree with "one more mind fuck for the road had a lot to do with it" more than "the only reason is because he wanted to fuck with our minds one last time".

[tinmeigut]

Well... What is 'Mindfuck'?

[DatDude]

Well... What is 'Mindfuck'?

When anime like eva or boogie pop phantom, or lain gets all trippy and makes your hurt. That is a mind fuck.

[Executor]

Well... What is 'Mindfuck'?

When something is just so damn crazy/weird/fucked up to the point it make you wonder what the fuck just happened. That, my friend, is a mindfuck.

[THE Hal E. Burton 9000]

IMPO, while the scene was rather shocking when I first saw it, it was more saddening than anything else.

[Shin-seiki]

The scene isn't intended only as a random gross-out that Anno just pulled out of his ass, but is actually meaningful in terms of the pathology of Shinji's interaction with Asuka. Whereas she is comparatively straightforward and pro-active in terms of her approach (flirting/taunting in #09 and 10, and direct action in #15), Shinji is seemingly intimidated to the point of paralysis by her when she is awake, but ends up almost kissing her when she is asleep (#09) and, well, we see what he does when she is exposed and unconscious in #25'.

[Sailor Star Dust]

The scene isn't intended only as a random gross-out that Anno just pulled out of his ass, but is actually meaningful in terms of the pathology of Shinji's interaction with Asuka. Whereas she is comparatively straightforward and pro-active in terms of her approach (flirting/taunting in #09 and 10, and direct action in #15), Shinji is seemingly intimidated to the point of paralysis by her when she is awake, but ends up almost kissing her when she is asleep (#09) and, well, we see what he does when she is exposed and unconscious in #25'.

QFT.

[Eva Yojimbo]

The scene isn't intended only as a random gross-out that Anno just pulled out of his ass, but is actually meaningful in terms of the pathology of Shinji's interaction with Asuka. Whereas she is comparatively straightforward and pro-active in terms of her approach (flirting/taunting in #09 and 10, and direct action in #15), Shinji is seemingly intimidated to the point of paralysis by her when she is awake, but ends up almost kissing her when she is asleep (#09) and, well, we see what he does when she is exposed and unconscious in #25'.

Damn, you beat me to it Shin. Although I'd say that neither's method of interaction is honest. I think the last two episodes (film and EoTV) go a long way in tearing down the facades of what we see of the characters in the series.

But this play on relationships and interaction is mirrored all throughout the series and film. It's reiterated time and time again. I think people looking at Shinji's actions there aren't seeing the big picture. It's another expression of his psychological state, and his mode of interaction. What does it say that Shinji can only be "honest" about his feelings toward Asuka when she's asleep and Asuka can only be "honest" about her feelings toward Shinji when she's alone (her 22' Angel encounter).

I also think it makes a lot of sense that they chose masturbation to express Shinji's state here. What better way then taking something that's supposed to be pleasurable and only have it cause him more pain?

YES, it's a mindfuck, but like much of EoE, it also makes sense in relation to what's going on.

[thewayneiac]

You have to look at this in the broader picture: several other characters have already had scenes demonstrating that they have hit rock bottom. Misato tries to seduce Shinji; after destroying the Tank Reis, Ritsuko begs Misato to kill her; Asuka tries to commit suicide in a dirty bathtub. Now it's Shinji's turn; we could hardly leave him out, could we?

[DatDude]

You have to look at this in the broader picture: several other characters have already had scenes demonstrating that they have hit rock bottom. Misato tries to seduce Shinji; after destroying the Tank Reis, Ritsuko begs Misato to kill her; Asuka tries to commit suicide in a dirty bathtub. Now it's Shinji's turn; we could hardly leave him out, could we?

Nicly put wayne nicely put.

[Sailor Star Dust]

I like the way you think, Eva Yojimbo. You made some really good points I didn't realize before.

One thing I wanted to add in terms of Shinji's pain--he's suicidally depressed at this point, so you'd think that by doing something that's usually percieved as pleasurable, it, like you pointed out, only caused him more pain.

...Though could it also have to do with Shinji's prudish personality when it comes to sexual matters? (4: His disgusted(?) expression at those lovers in the theater, 10: "I don't think about stuff like that!" 25 & 25': Shinji's disgusted expression at what Misato-san does, 25': "I'm the lowest of the low" after masturbating near Asuka...)


One thing I wanted to ask in terms of Asuka, and I hope this doesn't open up any can of worms as it were, is what does Asuka think about this?

Is it what she says in Pre-Instrumentality? "...Do it again like always, I'll even watch you. If I can't have all of you to myself, then I want nothing!"



(I love the look on Shinji's face here. ^^; )



since her reaction of this


and this
(cue P3II coffeepot scene examples too, I don't have time to dig those out.)

is this?
(eg: Though I want you, you're so pathetic you make me sick.) Implying, imo at least (dunno if I'm right), that his "wimpy" nature upsets her more than anything else??


btw, why exactly WAS Asuka comatose, anyway? Did she become unconscious/faint after her suicide attempt from loss of blood (what I always assumed)??

[BrikHaus]

btw, why exactly WAS Asuka comatose, anyway? Did she become unconscious/faint after her suicide attempt from loss of blood (what I always assumed)??

You might pass out from blood loss, but you wouldn't go into a coma from it. And after receiving IV packed RBCs and saline, you would be okay. You wouldn't stay unconscious for days. Presumably she is catatonic (unresponsive and in a trance-like state) from the stress of everything that has happened to her.

[BobBQ]

She was sedated for her own safety; note the dialogue when she's being loaded into Unit 02.

[NAveryW]

Sailor Star Dust, don't expect an answer if you're going into the final scene of EoE and Asuka's expression.

However, out of curiosity, since you are presumably female, how would you feel if you were in Asuka's situation?

[Anonymous_Evafan]

I'd say Asuka is being dead serious on the matter during P3II. Keep in mind that they are mentally linked, so much so that people are responding to what others are thinking.

Shinji (disgusted = thinking):
This is Misato? She does... this?

Misato:
Yes, this is also me... The melting into one another's hearts...
The me that Shinji doesn't know.

Shinji should know if she is being serious or just BSing and his reactions denote honesty on Asuka's part, as utterly bizzare as it seems.

[Eva Yojimbo]

I like the way you think, Eva Yojimbo. You made some really good points I didn't realize before.

Thanks.

One thing I wanted to add in terms of Shinji's pain--he's suicidally depressed at this point, so you'd think that by doing something that's usually percieved as pleasurable, it, like you pointed out, only caused him more pain.

...Though could it also have to do with Shinji's prudish personality when it comes to sexual matters? (4: His disgusted(?) expression at those lovers in the theater, 10: "I don't think about stuff like that!" 25 & 25': Shinji's disgusted expression at what Misato-san does, 25': "I'm the lowest of the low" after masturbating near Asuka...)

This makes total sense to me because it's another way of expressing how he deals with people and his own emotions. It's not so much about being prudish as it is another example of his introverted personality. Matters of sex no doubt makes him feel uncomfortable.

One thing I wanted to ask in terms of Asuka, and I hope this doesn't open up any can of worms as it were, is what does Asuka think about this?

This could be an entirely new thread on its own...

[Executor]

Sailor Star Dust: That better be fucking mayonaise on Shinji's hand :P