Rei's Birth

[Eva Yojimbo]

The more I was thinking about this the more I realized that one of the aspects of NGE I'm fuzziest on is that concerning the details behind Rei's birth. I'm quite sure there are dozens of topics on this, but YOU try typing "Rei" into the search engine. :evil:

What I (think I) know:

-Rei was born out of the attempted salvage of Yui from Sho.
-Rei contains Yui's body (because of the LCL inside Sho?), but Lilith's soul.

Now, the details I don't know:

-Why can't Rei's ATF hold its shape (as we see her falling apart in EoE)?
-Why/How were they able to "copy" Rei?
-How did they form the whole Dummy Plug System from her?

If anyone wants to post some relevent threads and lock this one, that would be okay. Or, just as preferably, answer these questions here...

[V]

I, well, ASSUMED that she was cloned from "recoverd DNA" which was then modified...NOT that she "congealed out of LCL" like Shinji in episode 20.

[Hailtheplatypus]

-Why can't Rei's ATF hold its shape (as we see her falling apart in EoE)?

I think the first question is, what is the AT field truely? I mean one can observe that it is a physical boarder between people that holds them together, but what does it represent? I think the best answer for this question is that the AT field is the thing that allows people to keep their individuality, by creating a sense of self. The AT field is simply The border of ones self. Due to the fact that Rei has little sense of self it is logical to see why her AT field would be weak. It also makes sense that in episode 24 after Rei III was born she had an amazingly strong AT field as she had sense of self...

-Why/How were they able to "copy" Rei?

Rei I believe was formed from Lilith's body...If anyone doesnt believe me look at all the legs comming out of Lilith. I think that Lilith's flesh (Or possibly Lilith's soul and a clone of Yui) was raised without being given an identity and thus created Rei. This would explain why Rei experiences times where she doesnt understand who she is.

-How did they form the whole Dummy Plug System from her?

The Dummy plugs were simply more clones that were created as the original were created yet lack a soul.

[Eva Yojimbo]

I, well, ASSUMED that she was cloned from "recoverd DNA" which was then modified...NOT that she "congealed out of LCL" like Shinji in episode 20.

How, then, do we explain how Lilith's soul ended up inside her? Remember Ritsuko's statement in 23' that she was the only one "born" with a soul.

<snip>

Yes, the ATF is the "light of the soul", the ego/self, the thing which seperates people. It's an interesting idea that because Rei does not know who she is (Lilith) is the reason why her ATF cannot hold her form...

Rei I believe was formed from Lilith's body...If anyone doesnt believe me look at all the legs comming out of Lilith. I think that Lilith's flesh (Or possibly Lilith's soul and a clone of Yui) was raised without being given an identity and thus created Rei. This would explain why Rei experiences times where she doesnt understand who she is.

Rei is definitely the body of Yui (this is stated in the CI). But I use the term "body" loosely. It is possible she just contains the DNA of Yui that ends up making her body, but Lilith's soul.

The Dummy plugs were simply more clones that were created as the original were created yet lack a soul.

The "clones" of Rei, according Ritsuko, were nothing but dummies and parts for Rei. However, that chamber was the manufacturing plant for the Dummy System, which I think is a seperate thing.

[BrikHaus]

Here's a much older and more complicated discussion, featuring the one and only Zugzwang. :) [url]http://www.animeboards.com/showthread.php?t=59298[/url]

[Anonymous_Evafan]

The RCB says Rei was created from Yui's salvaged remains, whatever the hell that means. I would assume Rei was indeed "born" during the failed salvage attempt and Lilith's soul was sucked into an empty vessel much the same as Yui and Kyoko with the Evas.

[DatDude]

She was falling appart because ritsuko was locked up and she maintained her

[Jay911]

-Why can't Rei's ATF hold its shape (as we see her falling apart in EoE)?

I tried to attribute this to the line(s) mentioned by Fuyutsuki and the "bridge" techs earlier in EoE - I think in one of the scenes immediately preceding that, if I recall right. Something along the lines of "Soon, individual forms will be unable to maintain their separate shapes". I took Rei's "coming apart" shortly thereafter as her embodiment of that prediction, either by coincidence or because she just didn't care if she lived or died at that point.

Of course, another opinion has been raised by someone else, almost as soon as I first proposed that idea. Someone posited that she had not taken her daily run of meds, and that those meds were what keep her together. I'm not sure I agree with that, because it implies something is different about Rei than any of the other kids, or other humans. I know Rei is "special", but I really don't think she's THAT "special".

[Eva Yojimbo]

It's interesting how all the Rei dummies where in a big tank of LCL too. To me it seems to imply that there's something... WRONG with Rei's body to the effect that it can't hold its shape without frequent LCL dips (apparantly an ATF isn't enough). I'm just wondering what the logic behind this is.

[Ornette]

It's interesting how all the Rei dummies where in a big tank of LCL too. To me it seems to imply that there's something... WRONG with Rei's body to the effect that it can't hold its shape without frequent LCL dips (apparantly an ATF isn't enough). I'm just wondering what the logic behind this is.

I don't think it was just the LCL that was keeping the clones intact in the tank. When Ritsuko destroyed the clones the datapad said "Destrudo Release". If LCL had the inherent property of holding sacks of flesh in its shape, it doesn't have a very good track record.

[Jumpstart A. Cat]

I don't think it was just the LCL that was keeping the clones intact in the tank. When Ritsuko destroyed the clones the datapad said "Destrudo Release". If LCL had the inherent property of holding sacks of flesh in its shape, it doesn't have a very good track record.

Destrudo is the drive to destroy, isn't it? But the Rei clones surely don't have a destrudo, they don't have souls. "Destrudo Release" makes destrudo sound like a chemical or something that gets released into the LCL and destroys the Rei clones. Maybe the LCL does have the propetry of holding the clones together, and a chemical was added that altered the chemical make up of the LCL so that it couldn't do that anymore.

[Ornette]

In the other uses of "Destrudo" (BB's EoE translation has it written as "Destrado") in ep 20, 21, and EoE, it is something that broke the "ego barrier" which then caused the person to turn into LCL, and no indication that it originated from a soul (although this is probably a matter of ambiguity). Now I realize this is a little different in the Reiquarium case, these clones have no soul, and thus no ATF. Therefore, why would you need to introduce something to break down an ego barrier that doesn't exist? The 3 other times that we see (well, one is implied) someone losing an ego barrier also occurs inside LCL, but the LCL itself didn't seem to do anything in preventing it from happening, and in ep20, it only prevented one from forming.

I'm sure there's more going on with the Rei clones as well as with LCL itself, as it's often used as some all-purpose liquid. But it doesn't make sense to me that LCL, by itself, which is also what everyone is made up of, also prevents sacks of flesh (which presumably are also made of LCL) from losing its shape.

[Shin-seiki]

(which presumably are also made of LCL)

Rei and Kaworu, while having the shape/form/structure (externally and internally) of adolescent Lilim, are made of the same mysterious alien "wave/particulate" substance as are the Angels and Evas. In the manga, Kaworu even comments on this fact: something to the effect of "when we touched, I could feel that we were made of the same substance" (sorry, I don't have that volume available for the exact quote). That is why they can project ATFs, levitate, regenerate arms, and so on.

[Ornette]

(which presumably are also made of LCL)

Rei and Kaworu, while having the shape/form/structure (externally and internally) of adolescent Lilim, are made of the same mysterious alien "wave/particulate" substance as are the Angels and Evas. In the manga, Kaworu even comments on this fact: something to the effect of "when we touched, I could feel that we were made of the same substance" (sorry, I don't have that volume available for the exact quote). That is why they can project ATFs, levitate, regenerate arms, and so on.

Ahh, that makes sense. Kaworu I knew about, but wasn't sure if Rei was actually made of PVM, but that would explain the ability to hold a shape without a soul (like Lilith is able to). Thus, it isn't the LCL, that was why a "Destrudo Release" was necessary, and that's why they broke into gruesome pieces and didn't turn into LCL.

[V]

I think Rei was just made from recovered Yui DNA (she didn't come from the LCL in the entry plug like Shinji did in episode 20)

As for "how did she get Lilith's soul"? ...I didn't think that came from the Contact Experiment.

I thought they "put in" Lilith's soul LATER, using "Metaphysical biology"

[Opteron-O3]

I think Rei was just made from recovered Yui DNA (she didn't come from the LCL in the entry plug like Shinji did in episode 20)

Made or spit out, just like Shinji. But, don't remember the thread I read this, the reason they weren't succesful in returning Yui was because she didn't want to come back, or something of that nature, and they were only able to recover what they got. In this case Rei.

As for "how did she get Lilith's soul"? ...I didn't think that came from the Contact Experiment.

As I stated above, in that same thread, it states how maybe Yui's soul was exchanged with Lilith's soul, thus getting a deformed Yui..? Because Yui did not want to come back to her body "per se" they exchanged souls. I'm sure somebody could explain this better.

I thought they "put in" Lilith's soul LATER, using "Metaphysical biology"

When?

[V]

well, the same way they can get Lilith's soul from the dead Rei II into Rei III

[Opteron-O3]

well, the same way they can get Lilith's soul from the dead Rei II into Rei III

That is just another Eva mystery.

Because ReiII blows up, but remember that scene where they find the capsule? And Ritsuko is like: "this is top secret" or something of that nature. Rei probably didn't die, I mean she did, but... She probably turned into tang. Or we can talk about the ATF thing, her ATF collapsed trying to contain the angel, so maybe she collapsed into pieces inside the capsule exposing her soul? Or... it's just a mystery. Many possibilities.

[Jay911]

A hand is clearly visible in the plug's shattered remains when Akagi and a tech look inside.



I always took "Clean out the plug and destroy everything" to mean put the bits of Rei II into a Glad garbage bag so we can try to retrieve her soul, and make sure nothing remains of what we've done here.

[Opteron-O3]

A hand is clearly visible in the plug's shattered remains when Akagi and a tech look inside.



I always took "Clean out the plug and destroy everything" to mean put the bits of Rei II into a Glad garbage bag so we can try to retrieve her soul, and make sure nothing remains of what we've done here.

Very nice!

I see the hand you're talking about. So we can possibly go with the ATF thing they were talking about.