[LAEM] Three movies? Impossible!

[THE Hal E. Burton 9000]

Hearing all this talk about how amazing Dark Knight makes me wonder: What's the possibility of the directors/writers trying their hand at LAEM? If they were to be a part of it instead of just those Batman films, would they do Live-action Eva justice?

I don't even know whether Chris Nolan (director/main writer, Batman Begins and The Dark Knight) has an interest in Evangelion, or in anime in general

Personally (though I haven't seen that first Batman film yet that Dark Knight is a sequel to, or Dark Knight) I think it would make LAEM EPIC instead of well...lame. ;)

well, I'm not sure if anyone would want the likes of Tim Burton or () Joel Schumacher in control of LAEM... could you all imagine what either would do??

[/off-topic] however SSD-chan, while EM WILL TOTALLY disagree with me here (don't ask him about it, he won't have anything nice to say about this), I HIGHLY recommend the next time you order from Netflix (or whatever service you use) that you include the 1989 Batman; and if you like it, I recommend seeing Batman Returns, as well as Batman: The Animated Series and Mask of the Phantasm

I don't recommend Batman Forever or Batman and Robin, unless you've become a TOTAL Batman whore, you're a REALLY BIG fan of one of the actors/actresses in either movie or you're REALLY curious to see why the film franchise was put on the shelf for over half a decade (and fair warning, you better be sure...)

[Sailor Star Dust]

I know I saw at least a few of those Batman films back in the day (eg, when I was a young'in). One of them was Batman Forever as well as Batman and Robin.

I don't even know whether Chris Nolan (director/main writer, Batman Begins and The Dark Knight) has an interest in Evangelion, or in anime in general

If only somebody could talk him into it! :(

[THE Hal E. Burton 9000]

anything is possible

[Formless One]

Nolan might be able to do it, but would he? The studios are jumping on the anime adaptations bandwagon lately, what with Dragon Ball, Cowboy Beebop, Speed Racer, and even Steven Speilberg dabbling with Ghost in the Shell. It does have similarities to a few years ago when the studios decided it was OK to do superhero movies again. So maybe someone can convince Nolan to do for anime adaptations what he did for superhero movies. I can't help but think that it would be ironic if Eva was the movie to reinvent the way people think about anime adaptations- after reinventing the way people thought about anime itself in the first place. But maybe not. Nolan MIGHT retire after making his last Batman, you never know.

But lets be generous here. If you can get the studios to open up to anime the same way they opened up to superheros, Nolan isn't the only guy who might do a faithful adaptation. The guys who did the X-men were pretty faithful without getting campy. In fact, they were even able to update the political metaphor into something relevant to modern times. The more universal themes of Eva wouldn't even need that much of an update: psychology matters to everyone whether they acknowledge it or not. The guys who did V for Vendetta made an excellent movie, although some might not call it a very faithful adaptation due to its focus on the modern "freedom fighter vs terrorist" debate. And the studio that did the Spiderman trilogy- well, its kind of hard to ruin Spiderman, but they at least knew how to sell it to the masses: for something as niche as a superhero, thats an accomplishment worth noting.

Even this year, Nolan isn't even the only movie maker to do a good superhero movie. I have only heard good things about Hancock, like that it was everything Superman Returns should have been. And thats with a super hero they invented themselves. Not an adaptation of preexisting work.

Point is, Nolan would be first pick for making an Eva adaption, but he isn't the only one, assuming that the superhero crowd would be the same people who would be interested in anime adaptations. And they are not the only people interested in anime adaptations, from the current looks of things.

Another thing to take into consideration is that anime is a lot more varied than superheros. And the current anime being adapted all fall into genres that have significant traditions in America that they can work off of: Speed Racer was just a gimmicky variant of the racing genre (it says so in the name, people). Dragon Ball will be a gimmicky version of the martial arts movie (aren't they all?). Cowboy Beebop fits several American traditions, including action, science fiction, noir, mafia, neo western, martial arts, and bounty hunters, not to mention jazz and rock were American inventions. (that is part of the reason why it was so successful as a show: some people even say that its dub is better than its sub because it fits America so well.) And Ghost in the Shell is a near future dystopian sci-fi, which is right up Speilbergs ally. (Now if only he can keep from letting his UFO alien fixation from seeping into every movie he makes, people wouldn't hate him so much)

But what tradition might Eva fit? Its post apocalyptic; but Americans like to emphasis the "living in the ruins 'cause everything blown to hell" aspect of Armageddon movies, while Eva is quite clean and everyone seems to get on with their lives after 2'nd impact. (Its almost jarring, really; I'm of the camp that would have liked to see more about the after affects of 2'nd impact early on in the series. Maybe not after a certain number of episodes, granted.) Its near future sci-fi, but then it throws weird shit like the End of Eva instrumentality splat scene into the mix, so its closer to fantasy hiding in sci-fi. And Americans are a bit fixated on folk lore, Tolkien, superheroes, and the Middle ages in their fantasy to quite understand. And it has giant robots. That tear apart Godzilla like aliens. There are traditions for both of those kinds of movies, but I don't have to tell anyone here that it would be a major disappointment if those traditions got in the way of the philosophical aspects of Eva. And besides, the last giant robot movie was Transformers. DON'T GET ME STARTED ON TRANSFORMERS. It is essentially anathema to Eva as stories go. (They had better not let Michal Bay so much as touch Eva, or it will turn into another Transformers debacle.)

If the right director got their hands on it, it could turn into an amazing movie. Nolan might fit the bill, but he isn't the only one. It would take someone with a mind to reinvent, but also acknowledge American movie making traditions. NOT just someone who was devoted to making an accurate adaptation, although that is important too, just not as much as people might think. Americans are fickle creatures, and they tragically refuse to even try to understand anything thats too foreign. Case in point: V for Vendetta was criticized by the original writer because the film chose terrorism themes that an American audience would understand, saying that V was a story principally about Brittan. He subsequently refused to watch it because it had been translated into something everyone could appreciate. Some fans of Eva would do the same...

So what might we change to make this movie work for everyone, including the fans?

I had a few ideas, but no one kill me for deviating from popular opinions.

Here's my vision: in 2015 (2020, 2030, whenever the f*ck makes sense for the movies release date) 2'nd impact happens. The world is devastated, global warming whips up a notch, coastal cities are wiped out, wars happen over resources as basic as food and water, basically everything that happened in the anime happens here (except that bullshit about the Earth being knocked off its axis; when you have massive global warming, thats a totally unnecessary and unbelievable detail better left out of the movies). Seele, an Illuminati like secret cult in charge of the U.N. and U.S. (thats an important detail since Americans won't believe they are important unless they control America personally; the U.N. is secondary to most Americans), pulls a massive cover up of the event to keep their agenda safe. So far, not much is different from the anime.

But here's where it starts getting different, so bear with me.

Japan is destroyed in a nuclear war.

Wait, stop! I know what you are thinking: everything in the show happens in Japan. To some fans, they wouldn't watch it if it happens anywhere else. But since this is Hollywood, it must happen on American shores, or else lose the Audience. (this is not the time to point out Harry Potter, thats the exception that proves the rule) But this allows us to pull a cast from wherever we want, rather than making them American without an excuse to do so.

Besides, Tokyo got nuked in the show too, so this just makes it actually matter to the plot instead of being a meaningless detail.

So where does the action take place in this adaptation? On the west coast of America, obviously. But not in LA or any other real city. In fact, its still Neo Tokyo.

In my vision, neo tokyo is a refugee city. The majority of its citizenry are Japanese, because, remember, Japan is a smoking radioactive crater. The secret, of course, is that it resides over the black moon, just like in the anime. But it also harbors Americans displaced from California's coastal cities, just to keep the American audiences egos happy.

Now for the cast. It gets more diverse, obviously, but it helps that we can now pull characters from around the world because the city was founded by refugees. I would cast the pilots at 16, and the events would happen 16 years after 2'nd impact. the reasons are varied, but it comes down to the fact that 14 year old actors bring in too many problems, production wise. Voices breaking, the acceptability of using child soldiers, problems of sexuality (plug suits on 14 year old girls is a little bit too purvey for American tastes, but 16 brings in the appeal of jail bait without being too sick), etc.. Now, some might object, but really, how much does this really change anything of consequence in the story? That teens are too mature? Only in their heads. Besides, it makes Shinji's emo stand out more, in case no one gets it. Frankly, to me, the characters always acted a little too mature in the anime anyway, so this just makes their parts fit better.

On to individual characters.

Shinji is Japanese American, Gendo being a full blooded American jackass. This is partially for appearance issues, as anime Shinji is a little too conspicuously Caucasian. He grew up in a different city after Gendo abandoned him, and this is his first time in Neo Tokyo when the movie starts.

Asuka is almost full German, no longer being one fourth Japanese for no reason. Seriously, the only reason she was one fourth Japanese in the anime was because of Japanese cultural bias. So that Macguffin is out. Her name does not change, because Asuka is actually a German name anyway IIRC. If the studios complain about her last name, they can make it Rose if they want. Whatever. The first name is the important one. She lived some of her life in the U.S., so she is accustomed to English, but she has Dub Asuka's habit of slipping into German when angered. She is a child prodigy, but by making her 15, its easier to swallow.

Rei is the only one who is fully Japanese. There isn't anything that I would change about her, because nothing can be changed about her. She's too important.

Touji would become the mandatory Hollywood black man. The role is perfect for the character. I wouldn't make him a thug like gangster, but assume that his family came from San Fransisco and was middle class until 2'nd impact. It would make him an interesting and dynamic character, without going into pointless stereotypes.

Hikari and Kensuki can be Japanese.

Misato would be American. And actually Christian. She would explore the religious symbolism, and when she finds out its all in the minds of Seele's fanatics, it would be a major revelation in itself. Otherwise the audience might get put off by Lillith on the cross. And everything else religious, too. Something has to be done about this, and Misato was convenient.



The angels would come in swifter and with more numbers. I would make it feel like an actual siege. Actual nukes would get tossed around. The Evas would get plenty of opportunities to haul ass.

Thats my take on it. What do you think?

[Sailor Star Dust]

I likey for the most part.

Anyway, I know that Nolan isn't the only one who could make a good film; it's just he's the only one who comes to mind right away. (I really haven't been following movies much lately.)

[Logan Payne]

I'm not sure if anyone would want the likes of Tim Burton or () Joel Schumacher in control of LAEM... could you all imagine what either would do??

Tim Burton's take on Evangelion....MEIN GOT

BTW Batman: The Animated Series was excellent. I'm tempted to buy some of the seasons on iTunes

[Formless One]

You know, I was just sitting thinking here when I realized one reason why Nolan might not be a good director for LAEM. He has a minimalist/old fashioned attitude towards special effects. Namely, to make something realistic, make it actually real. In TDK, he had actual stunts with actual vehicles and people jumping off buildings. But when your dealing with a giant robot movie with robot vs monster scenes, you have no choice; use CGI or go home. Thats not Nolans style, unfortunately.

Really, the reason people love his adaptation of batman was for its writing and acting. Thats why he might make a good director for LAME, but only if he is willing to work with CGI. We certainly would want his writers on board for this one.

BTY, one thing I forgot to mention about my Vision for a LAEM that Doesn't Suck, is that I would parse the story out so that it happens over a longer time frame, in the order of a couple years. That way, the actors aging wouldn't be an issue. But I could flip flop on that, if I thought that I could get them to film nonstop for a year like in The Lord of the Rings, than I might opt for that instead.

[THE Hal E. Burton 9000]

The more universal themes of Eva wouldn't even need that much of an update: psychology matters to everyone whether they acknowledge it or not.

my biggest concern going foward is this sort of thing would get either completely cut out or minimized to the point of it becoming something like Transformers

The guys who did the X-men were pretty faithful without getting campy.

the first X-Men with Brian Singer directing and David Hayter's script was GREATNESS, but I thought X2 sucked and I never saw X3; hopefully, either the Wolverine or Magneto prequels will return the series to the awesomeness of the first

In fact, they were even able to update the political metaphor into something relevant to modern times. The guys who did V for Vendetta made an excellent movie, although some might not call it a very faithful adaptation due to its focus on the modern "freedom fighter vs terrorist" debate.

two problems with this

1) the Wachowski brothers did a horrible job with Speed Racer, so I doubt them even touching anything that is even remotely tied to anime

2) ANYTHING in entertainment that's been too closely linked to sociopolitics has meant FAIL nine times out of 10, people in the US can't stand movies like these which have been made in the last 15 years or so, the last film that had politics as a key theme that was BIG was JFK, Tom Clancy movies and Enemy of the State

And the studio that did the Spiderman trilogy- well, its kind of hard to ruin Spiderman, but they at least knew how to sell it to the masses: for something as niche as a superhero, thats an accomplishment worth noting.

the first Spiderman was good for a film that was in development hell for almost 30 years, Spiderman 2 was WONDERFUL, Spiderman 3 tried too hard and FAILED IMO, dunno if Sam Raimi and crew would like to make the leap to anime, though apparently Tobey Maguire has made the leap with Robotech, and if Maguire's not scared of being typecast I could see him involved with LAE

Even this year, Nolan isn't even the only movie maker to do a good superhero movie. I have only heard good things about Hancock, like that it was everything Superman Returns should have been. And thats with a super hero they invented themselves. Not an adaptation of preexisting work.

Hancock was great, a very pleasant surprise coming from someone like Will Smith who IMO hadn't had anything really great out in the last few years, he might be interested in Eva given his penchant for sci-fi

Point is, Nolan would be first pick for making an Eva adaption, but he isn't the only one, assuming that the superhero crowd would be the same people who would be interested in anime adaptations. And they are not the only people interested in anime adaptations, from the current looks of things.

don't know if Nolan would be the first pick for LAE, he'll probably be able to pick and choose his projects with total control for a while and he'd only do it if he REALLY wanted to, not because he has bills to pay or is trying to "make it on top" ('cause he's pretty much there now)

if James Cameron can cram it onto his itinerary though, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets on board with LAE, he seems to be the most "pro-anime" person in Hollywood anyway

If the right director got their hands on it, it could turn into an amazing movie. Nolan might fit the bill, but he isn't the only one. It would take someone with a mind to reinvent, but also acknowledge American movie making traditions. NOT just someone who was devoted to making an accurate adaptation, although that is important too, just not as much as people might think. Americans are fickle creatures, and they tragically refuse to even try to understand anything thats too foreign. Case in point: V for Vendetta was criticized by the original writer because the film chose terrorism themes that an American audience would understand, saying that V was a story principally about Brittan. He subsequently refused to watch it because it had been translated into something everyone could appreciate. Some fans of Eva would do the same...

Anno-sensei may react similarly if it "ain't right"

semi-Americanized and post-apocalyptic setting

I could see some montages peppered through LAE working, though they would have to be careful here because a few key plot points could get smushed in the process

Now for the cast.

I do think it will be impossible for an American-made film to be made with 14-year-olds in such "situations" without a popular uproar among the pious types, like the one that happened with Brooke Shields in her early movies or more recently over Dakota Fanning in that indie film

though even I have to admit, a lot of situations and dialogue would seem more plausible with 16-year-olds instead

Shinji semi-Americanized

hmm, hadn't really thought of him possibly being half-Japanese (Yui full), half-American (Gendo full), though this will fuel the "Hugo Weaving for Gendo" hypothetical/speculation

if someone well-known MUST be Gendo, I almost want it be someone who could go against-type with Gendo to enhance the "shock value" of his actions

MOAR German Asuka

this could be kind of humorous, with a heavy German accent in some situations, considering I recently saw the first Die Hard , as tasteless as this sounds I can imagine an American-written film with a, ahem, "National Socalist" joke or two thrown in (insert other situations here)

Rei is the only one who is fully Japanese.

yeah, I'm concerned she might get too "Americanized" myself

Touji would become the mandatory Hollywood black man.

well, it could be interesting to see a 16-year-old Samuel L. Jackson-type, it would probably be one of the best places for the "token minority"

Misato would be American. And actually Christian.

uh, I dunno, I'm not sure getting caught up in religious fodder would be good, and it will DEFINITELY cause an uproar that most American studios don't want no matter how much money they could make, they're just too PC to touch that today, remember Passion of the Christ?

The angels would come in swifter and with more numbers. I would make it feel like an actual siege. Actual nukes would get tossed around. The Evas would get plenty of opportunities to haul ass.

with the exception of 3I and few key plot points, I think it would be good to Americanize the action sequences

good post Formless One, haven't had one that was as long as it was good on this subject in a while

[Formless One]

Misato would be American. And actually Christian.

uh, I dunno, I'm not sure getting caught up in religious fodder would be good, and it will DEFINITELY cause an uproar that most American studios don't want no matter how much money they could make, they're just too PC to touch that today, remember Passion of the Christ?

Only problem here is that the series already has enough religious cock ups that any adaptation would have to do something to appease the fundy retards who watch it. I thought that making a theme about how the religion of her employers doesn't sit well with Misato would not only allow the movie to solve the "Murdering Angels" dilemma, but would be a natural extension of Misato's character from the anime who was trying to get to the bottom of Seele's conspiracy. What would you do, get rid of the religious symbolism entirely? Stop calling the angels "angels"? Get Lillith off that cross? no longer call Eva "God"? In all fairness, getting rid of that one might be justified because the word in Japanese doesn't translate too well. That would be a really faithful adaptation, wouldn't it! [/sarcasm]

Seriously, though, what would you do if not what I suggested?

Hancock was great, a very pleasant surprise coming from someone like Will Smith who IMO hadn't had anything really great out in the last few years, he might be interested in Eva given his penchant for sci-fi

I thought his performance in I Am Legend was pretty good: its hard to act without anyone else to bounce off of! Ask me how I know.

The angels would come in swifter and with more numbers. I would make it feel like an actual siege. Actual nukes would get tossed around. The Evas would get plenty of opportunities to haul ass.

with the exception of 3I and few key plot points, I think it would be good to Americanize the action sequences

If there is anything that American filmmakers know how to do well, its action. So I'm not all that worried about that. what I was thinking was that they should not come one at time. Maybe there are more minor forms of angels that act like grunts that conventional military can handle while the familiar anime monsters are the bosses Eva was intended to fight? Or having the angels attack around the world (or at least around the country) so Shinji and company get to do some traveling? Or have a scene where units 01 and 02 have to split up to attack simultaneous threats, while another attacks headquarters and Rei, the least skilled pilot, has to save the day? You know, situations like that that didn't happen in the anime.

Of course, some angels would have to return for the story to work. Kaworu is a duh. Bardiel taking over unit 03 with black-Touji inside is a duh (gotta earn that R rating and prove Gendo has no heart somehow!). The angel that drops like a meteor would make for some awesome material for a trailer. And it just wouldn't be the same without Arael to mindrape Asuka from the clouds and give us that critical insight into her character.

And yes, there is no way the audience is going to take an N^2 mine seriously. Go nuclear, or go home.

good post Formless One, haven't had one that was as long as it was good on this subject in a while

Thanks! I thought about it for a while, ever since I heard about LAEM. Its not as impossible as some people think, just not probable.

*sigh* Makes me wish I had a studio and a production company...

[THE Hal E. Burton 9000]

Only problem here is that the series already has enough religious cock ups that any adaptation would have to do something to appease the fundy retards who watch it. I thought that making a theme about how the religion of her employers doesn't sit well with Misato would not only allow the movie to solve the "Murdering Angels" dilemma, but would be a natural extension of Misato's character from the anime who was trying to get to the bottom of Seele's conspiracy. What would you do, get rid of the religious symbolism entirely? Stop calling the angels "angels"? Get Lillith off that cross? no longer call Eva "God"? In all fairness, getting rid of that one might be justified because the word in Japanese doesn't translate too well. That would be a really faithful adaptation, wouldn't it! [/sarcasm]

now don't get me wrong

I don't have a problem with religious connatations, and some will disagree with me, but I think it would definitely add something to take things in a slightly MOAR spiritual turn, but I think I have a pretty firm grasp of how Hollywood and corporate America almost always handles this sort of thing

they always seem to try and appease EVERYONE, which could mean that they'll add some spiritualness in the LCL experience but then they'll take away something that "sounds" spiritual away, like they might call the angels "messangers" or "titans" or something stupid like that

it would be wrong, yes, we'd all kill them for it, but they really don't have as firm a grasp on middle America that they used to, which IMO is why they've been having such trouble shaking off their collective "stank" in recent years

I thought his performance in I Am Legend was pretty good: its hard to act without anyone else to bounce off of!Ask me how I know.

I'm not sure if this makes sense but, my problem with that movie was that movie itself and not his performance

what I was thinking was that they should not come one at time. Maybe there are more minor forms of angels that act like grunts that conventional military can handle while the familiar anime monsters are the bosses Eva was intended to fight? Or having the angels attack around the world (or at least around the country) so Shinji and company get to do some traveling? Or have a scene where units 01 and 02 have to split up to attack simultaneous threats, while another attacks headquarters and Rei, the least skilled pilot, has to save the day? You know, situations like that that didn't happen in the anime.

eh, I'm not keen on the idea of "mini-angels", it would start look too much like Transformers at that point IMO

And yes, there is no way the audience is going to take an N^2 mine seriously. Go nuclear, or go home.

well, with some of the stuff that's coming out of General Dynamics and Raytheon, like the Daisy Cutter and these new bunker buster bombs, it might not be too much of a stretch

keep in mind also that in the production notes, the N² mine was supposed to be dubbed the "P-bomb", and it has been purported that it was to be a Positron-based/antimatter-bomb, a la Star Trek's photon/quantum torpedoes

a "pure fusion weapon" has been theorized to accomplish this and was pursued by the US and USSR during the Cold War but neither came up with anything close to this, and the development of such a weapon now would likely break a host of post-Cold War treaties

Makes me wish I had a studio and a production company...

you can say that again

[Evangelion__x]

This has nothing to do with what any of you guys are talking about, but I read somewhere that the guy who should play Toji should be African American - oh gosh, I loved that idea.

[Formless One]

SOMEONE POSTING IN THIS THREAD? IMPOSSIBLE!

A-herm. Now then. Yeah, that was in my original visionary post. Touji is the low-brow comic relief character/dog for Gendo to kick. I thought that an American audience would heartily accept the character as an African American, all that considered. The only catch is that they would have to resist the urge to make him a gangsta. Thats why I'd give him a backstory about having come from San Fransisco and middle class. It also gave a convenient reason for him to be living in Neo Tokyo, because San Fransisco would be under the ocean now.

[Sachi]

This has nothing to do with what any of you guys are talking about, but I read somewhere that the guy who should play Toji should be African American - oh gosh, I loved that idea.

No. Hyuga should be black.

[master_lloyd]

Morgan Freeman must play Fyutski.

[THE Hal E. Burton 9000]

yeah, if LAE "goes hollywood", Freeman would likely be involved

[Action_Bastard]

If they start "Americanizing" this idea, like changing races around(I am not racist, just pointing out) than this idea is surely going to flop....bad.

[THE Hal E. Burton 9000]

well it might, if the cast is too "off the wall" and the script and director can't reign them in, it could suck BIG TIME

[Formless One]

If they start "Americanizing" this idea, like changing races around(I am not racist, just pointing out) than this idea is surely going to flop....bad.

What the hells wrong with changing the races of some of the characters? It didn't make sense for all the characters to Japanese in the first place; the Eva project is an international project, so at least some of the scientists should come from around the world.

The only reason everyone is Japanese in the anime, is the same reason I gave for Asuka being one fourth Japanese: because Japanese culture is biased that way- they care more about a character if they are Japanese themselves. GO FIGURE, AMERICANS ARE THE SAME WAY. And since we'd be making this for an American audience, they are going to notice if everyone is Japanese, and its going to break their suspension of disbelief wide open like a nut.

The story doesn't change in the slightest if a couple characters are black or caucasian, and the characters personalities could be almost anyone, although Touji in my mind could be made African American with ease due to cultural expectations of Americans. And we know Hollywood habitually throws in a Token Minority Character; better Touji than, say, Fyutski.

As far as I can tell, the only people who don't understand the perogative "know thy audience" are fanwhores who wouldn't want you to change anything about the show- even the language. The same kind of people who think all versions of Batman must be partnered with Robin and Catwoman, even if it doesn't make sense for the story or setting. (i.e. Nolan's setting) The same perogative applies here. It applies everywhere.

I don't mean this personally to anyone here, but I just think its stupid that the movie has to cater only to fans. That is no way to spread the message.

[Action_Bastard]

I get what you are meaning, I have thought that some characters seemed different than to Japanese in the show, but if they do go on with creating the LAEM, I just don't want them to get carried away with making it "American." I think it should be more "International," a movie the whole world should see and enjoy and be part of.

[Formless One]

You know? I agree. And they should use a French studio. And it should be set in africa. And...

Wait...

Its going to be made in hollywood no matter what we do. So we should take what we can get. I still agree with you, however. I'm just trying to be realistic.