They Came For The Bridge Bunnies

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

Here's an question that came to me recently while debating the fate of Gendou in this thread on the AN forums.

Before their tangification in EoE #26', the bridge crew are visited by apparitions of loved ones, or just plains Rei, who generally tangify them on contact. These apparitions appear to be the Reis coming in a different form. Hyuuga gets Misato, Aoba gets the Reis, Fuyutsuki gets Yui and Maya gets Ritsuko. They came for the bridge bunnies, but who are "they"?

The general consensus is that the apparitions are in effect, the physical manifestations of the hopes and dreams of the bridge crew. They are what the bridge crew desires in their hearts and become the Rei's avatars as they come to claim the crew. The Rei's simply giving people what they want. They are not the 'real' Misato, Yui or Ritsuko.

Now I'd disagree with this view. I've always felt these apparitions ARE the real Misato, Yui and Ritsuko, come to carry the bridge crew off into complementation. I think the bridge crew, quite possibly the only ones left alive in the center of liliths egg, have been afforded this special luxury. The apparitions are in fact the real persons whom they represent and are in some way, easing the passing of the bridge crew into complementation.

Consider that all the persons we see as apparitions, are "dead". Misato, Yui, Ritsuko. Obviously in Yui's case, for a given value of "dead". Consider Aoba. Did he really have no one? Or was it simply that no one was suitably dead.

One of the arguments against this viewpoint is that the apparitions or avatars are too out of character. But are they? What is so out of character about what they do?
But apart from this, if these really are the recently deceased coming to claim the bridge crew, then they must have their own, personal reasons for appearing. I think that Misato, Yui and Ritsuko, each had a reason to come for the person that they did.



I'll deal with Hyuuga's tangification first. We start with a shot of Hyuuga, terrified and recoiling in his chair(1), from the Rei that has appeared before him(2). Now this Rei eventually morphs into Misato, I would say as early as the time she reaches for his face(3). Note that Hyuuga does not immediately go splat, unlike Aoba, despite the fact that Misato is caressing him here.

Now, here's an interesting point, brought up by Magami No ER in the AN thread. Hyuuga appears at first glance to be smiling here(4), but he isn't. His cheek is being pushed into a smile by Misato! She is trying to make him smile! This i think, is a big indicatator of the apparitions having motives. This one at least, wants Hyuuga to smile, be happy. She is not simply carrying him off, as the Rei's do Aoba.
[URL=http://www.imageshack.us][/URL]
Now we finally confirm that it is Misato(5). She leans in slowly at first(6). When we cut to the next shot, we can see clearly that Hyuuga is not smiling(7). He's still terrified. This is apparent from the audio track as well.

Now, having presumably reached the edge of the bench, Misato, almost playfully, quickly lunges on top of Hyuuga( 8 ) and kisses him. He's still in shock, but notice once she begins kissing him, his arms might be said to be moving to embrace her(9). Milliseconds later, Hyuuga goes splat(10).

Did the Misato persuade him to follow her into complementation. He explodes after her kiss, not after her touch. Did Hyuuga only last so long because he had not yet accepted complementation to the satisfaction of Misato? Did he only expire once she was sure he was in some way ready to join her? He only explodes after the kiss, after he begins to embrace her. Was her kiss enough to win him over, AT-Field and all? Did he tangify immediately after he began to feel happiness in her embrace?
By this, I mean to say that Misato came for Hyuuga to bring him happily into complemenation with her. She kisses him, and the moment he shows elation or joy at her kiss, it is in that moment that she carries him over. He dies happy. Certainly we know Maya does, so can we say the same for Hyuuga?

This is not to say that Misato needed to come for him. The Rei's could have taken him just as easily. But this might be a good indicator along with the shot in (4) that this is the real Misato, who has somehow been allowed by higher powers to visit Hyuuga and in some small way, ease his passing into complementation. Misato is dead at this point, but she died in the egg, and so perhaps lingered there, manifesting using a convienient Rei to bring Hyuuga into the extacy of complementation with her.



But is this out of character? Does it make sense that Misato would do this? We know that Hyuuga had feelings for Misato, but were they requited by Misato? I think they might have been.

Let's review their interactions. First before Kaji and Misato become lovers again. The only indication we have here here that the two are close is the fact that Hyuuga picks up Misato's laundry for her in episode #11. Now here's a thought. Why is Misato getting her laundry done in town? She has the worlds biggest neat freak at home, ready willing and able to get it done for her for free. So why get laundry done in town, and then have Hyuuga pick it up? He doesn't seem to have offered. Misato seems to have suggested it.

Hyuuga: She really is a careless person. I think that Katsuragi-san
ought to take her own laundry herself.

Perhaps Misato is somehow playing Hyuuga to get Kaji off her back? Or is this simply a case of her using men at her convienience?

The next example that comes to mind, is in episode #16, during the harmonics test.

Hyuuga : Misato-san, you seem exhausted.
Misato : Due to various reasons--private ones.
Ritsuko : Kaji-kun?
Misato : Shut up!

Why does Misato so vehemently tell Ritsuko to keep quiet? I would argue it is because she know Hyuuga has feelings for her, and would rather not have her renewed relationship with Kaji discussed in front of him.

But it is of course after Kaji's death that we get our most interesting moments between the two.
It appears that by episode #22 at least Misato had recruited Hyuuga in her quest for the truth(A1). He was at this stage suppling her with information about the MP Eva's production.
By episode #24 he was supplying her with both Ritsuko's whereabouts and data on Kaworu(A2). All this might indicate that Misato trusted Hyuuga enough to recruit him to help her in her seeking of the truth.
[URL=http://www.imageshack.us][/URL]
But their most interesting moment occurs in episode #24 during Kaworu's descent.

Misato: When something happens, after the signal from
Unit One disappears...
Hyuuga: I know.
You are going to self destruct this place.
It's better than letting Third Impact take place.
Misato: I'm sorry.
Hyuuga: Not at all, I can die with you.
Misato: Thanks.

A touching moment of confession from Hyuuga, one which Misato certainly didn't miss.(A3)

By all this, I mean to say, that it is not beyond the bounds of reason to suggest that Misato had feelings for Hyuuga as well. Kaji was after all, dead by this point. So it might not be too untoward to suggest that she may have come for him herself on the bridge.

I'll discuss the other bridge bunnies and their apparitions later, paticularly Maya and Ritsuko. Until then, all feedback is appreciated. Enjoy!

Edit:
Whoops! Forgot to add those appendix screens!

[Mad Max]

Aww man, thats deep and interesting, props to you man, I'd give you a beer, but you know, with computers and everything, I can't.

[DatDude]

Before I get to the tang effect I need to talk about Hyuuga and Misato for a bit.

Hyuuga I think was misatos errand boy. I got the impression she'd use him to get her drycleaning and stuff. We see this early and then for the most part the Misato Hyuuga subplot ( if you can call it that) vanishes until she needes him again . I think Misato just used the man when it was convenint for fer.

I think Hyuuga wehnt along with this because he had feelings for Misato, ( a boss like that who the hell wouldn't), but she was just useing the guy.

What we see as Hyuuga is brought into instrumentality is I think just an idle wish to make it ( dieing) easier.

Most people see somthing like that to ease the trip over I think, except Gendo that IMHO always feelt bat about what he was doing.

Think of it like this " you get what you think you diserve when you die".

Poor Aoba probly was just plain afraid to die.

[Mr. Tines]

Misato/Makoto - the dog that didn't bark in this particular relationship was when Misato was at a loose end in 23. If she's aware of him hanging around like a puppy-dog, then even in extremis, she's showing remarkable self discipline about fraternization along the chain of command.

The Transition Guides - With the exception of Yui, their prototypes are all freshly available to the Sysop; and to the extent that Rei was Yui, there should be enough to emulate. Outside of Instrumentality, I don't think that mind-reading is available; and the resultant Comprise is not omniscient. As high-powered shrewd guesswork when there is no time for argument, with some sort of feedback, it seems a possibility.

[Soluzar]

Before their tangification in EoE #26', the bridge crew are visited by apparitions of loved ones, or just plains Rei, who generally tangify them on contact. These apparitions appear to be the Reis coming in a different form. Hyuuga gets Misato, Aoba gets the Reis, Fuyutsuki gets Yui and Maya gets Ritsuko. They came for the bridge bunnies, but who are "they"?

The general consensus is that the apparitions are in effect, the physical manifestations of the hopes and dreams of the bridge crew. They are what the bridge crew desires in their hearts and become the Rei's avatars as they come to claim the crew. The Rei's simply giving people what they want. They are not the 'real' Misato, Yui or Ritsuko.Now I'd disagree with this view. I've always felt these apparitions ARE the real Misato, Yui and Ritsuko, come to carry the bridge crew off into complementation. I think the bridge crew, quite possibly the only ones left alive in the center of liliths egg, have been afforded this special luxury. The apparitions are in fact the real persons whom they represent and are in some way, easing the passing of the bridge crew into complementation.

I simply couldn't disagree with you more. It seems to me that you describe the evidence inaccurately, and reach conclusions which are entirely unfounded, and the only way that your point can be defended is by ignoring the evidence which even you draw attention to.

This next paragraph is the prime example of a case where you have seen the flaw in your own reasoning, and yet inexplicably choose to ignore it.

Consider that all the persons we see as apparitions, are "dead". Misato, Yui, Ritsuko. Obviously in Yui's case, for a given value of "dead". Consider Aoba. Did he really have no one? Or was it simply that no one was suitably dead.

In Yui's case, her soul was still bound to a body. Whatever the form of that body. That is a very peculiar value of "dead", OMF, and serves to instantly discredit anything else that you might go on to say.

One of the arguments against this viewpoint is that the apparitions or avatars are too out of character. But are they? What is so out of character about what they do?

Misato kissing Hyuuga. No matter which way you cut it, she had just recently rediscovered her deep feelings for Kaji. She is not going to do to Hyuuga what we see her doing, her.

By this, I mean to say that Misato came for Hyuuga to bring him happily into complemenation with her. She kisses him, and the moment he shows elation or joy at her kiss, it is in that moment that she carries him over. He dies happy. Certainly we know Maya does, so can we say the same for Hyuuga?

An illusion makes them happy or the real person makes them happy. This proves nothing either way, in the slightest. It is incidental. It could be held to be supporting evidence for either theory, and as such, supports neither in truth.

This is not to say that Misato needed to come for him. The Reis could have taken him just as easily. But this might be a good indicator along with the shot in (4) that this is the real Misato, who has somehow been allowed by higher powers to visit Hyuuga and in some small way, ease his passing into complementation.

Or it could be an indication that he enjoyed a rapturous fantasy curtesy of Lileth. It doesn't prove anything either way, and you simply can't force it to.

Misato is dead at this point, but she died in the egg, and so perhaps lingered there, manifesting using a convienient Rei to bring Hyuuga into the extacy of complementation with her.

Analysis doesn't work that way, I'm afraid. You can't just pull something out of the air with no real support. The fact that the initial manifestation was a Rei (who we know by now to have supernatural powers) means that you can't assume with any kind of credibility that it isn't still Rei, despite appearances. William of Oakham tought us that much, in the 14th century, and it is still one of the fundamental principles of analysis.

Did he only expire once she was sure he was in some way ready to join her? He only explodes after the kiss, after he begins to embrace her. Was her kiss enough to win him over, AT-Field and all? Did he tangify immediately after he began to feel happiness in her embrace?

His AT-Field was already gone, as was that of every living human. Nobody had a choice, and the delay was probably represented for the sake of storytelling as longer than it really was.

[Gazdakka Gizbang]

Now we finally confirm that it is Misato(5). She leans in slowly at first(6). When we cut to the next shot, we can see clearly that Hyuuga is not smiling(7). He's still terrified. This is apparent from the audio track as well.

He was in shock. He hadn't seen her for half the show, and as a result assumed that she was dead, and upon seeing her return was amazed that she was still alive. He'd also just recently creamed his pants after realising that a relationship between him and Misato was now theoretically possible thanks to his newfound passion, wouldn't that make you fearful? [/sarcastic]

That is quite an interesting thought that you have brought up. At the moment I'm not in the condition (nor sanity) to debate so I'm going to sit this one out for a long while.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

In Yui's case, her soul was still bound to a body. Whatever the form of that body. That is a very peculiar value of "dead", OMF, and serves to instantly discredit anything else that you might go on to say.

What I mean is that she is certainly not walking and talking with the rest of us. More so than dead, what I mean is that all three are now more spiritual than mortal in some way.

One of the arguments against this viewpoint is that the apparitions or avatars are too out of character. But are they? What is so out of character about what they do?

Misato kissing Hyuuga. No matter which way you cut it, she had just recently rediscovered her deep feelings for Kaji. She is not going to do to Hyuuga what we see her doing, her.

But Kaji is dead. And on the matter of Misato's fidelity towards him, we know that she made moves towards Shinji in episode #23, so she can hardly be said to be intending to remain a widow forever. What makes a budding Misato/Hyuuga relationship in the closing stages of the story episode #24,#25(#22), so difficult to accept? We've all accepted as fact, details derived from far more subtle clues after all.

Misato is dead at this point, but she died in the egg, and so perhaps lingered there, manifesting using a convienient Rei to bring Hyuuga into the extacy of complementation with her.

Analysis doesn't work that way, I'm afraid. You can't just pull something out of the air with no real support. The fact that the initial manifestation was a Rei (who we know by now to have supernatural powers) means that you can't assume with any kind of credibility that it isn't still Rei, despite appearances. William of Oakham tought us that much, in the 14th century, and it is still one of the fundamental principles of analysis.

But by this logic can we then not say that the giant Kaworu emerging from GNR was not in fact Kaworu, as the initial manifestation was GNR? Just because the initial apparition was Rei this does not in itself mean that it could not later have been Misato.

Did he only expire once she was sure he was in some way ready to join her? He only explodes after the kiss, after he begins to embrace her. Was her kiss enough to win him over, AT-Field and all? Did he tangify immediately after he began to feel happiness in her embrace?

His AT-Field was already gone, as was that of every living human. Nobody had a choice, and the delay was probably represented for the sake of storytelling as longer than it really was.

But what is the reason for this delay? Certainly neither Fuyutsuki nor Aoba were afforded it, and Maya obtained the longest reprieve of all? If these are simply the Reis, then why are they delaying so? For cinematic effect? I think we can do better than this here.

Misato/Makoto - the dog that didn't bark in this particular relationship was when Misato was at a loose end in 23. If she's aware of him hanging around like a puppy-dog, then even in extremis, she's showing remarkable self discipline about fraternization along the chain of command.

Indeed, the fact that she went for Shinji first might be an indication that she wasn't interested in Hyuuga. However, we are privy to her specific reasons for persuing Shinji. In episode #25 we are treated to the followiing tirade against men.

Misato: Guys always do that.
And Guys work, and Guys go to their own world,
leaving me behind.
Misato: Just like my father.

Shortly afterwards, we flashback to her detonation of the Big Irony Bomb. Misato's reasons for persuing Shinji appear to be that he, unlike other men, could not leave her and go to work in another world as her father did. Shinji was captive to her, working under her and also maternally dependant on her. He offered the perfect escape from any possible work related abandonment. Hyuuga obviously did not.
So we can say that Shinji was certainly the apparent path of least resistance for Misato to tread on her way to a relationship. But Shinji adament rejection quickly ended that line of persuit.
But was Misato likely to throw herself into the arms of another so soon after her stinging rebuke from Shinji? Probably not... in life. But could we consider their dialouge in the closing stages of the story to be the beginnings of a relationship of some kind? A relationship which Misato, inebriated by complementation, was allowed to consummate for the briefest of moments, being unhinged by social constraints or propriety? Uninhibited, she did what she may have wanted to do for some time perhaps?

[thewayneiac]

But by this logic can we then not say that the giant Kaworu emerging from GNR was not in fact Kaworu, as the initial manifestation was GNR? Just because the initial apparition was Rei this does not in itself mean that it could not later have been Misato.

I think you are comparing apples and oranges here. GNR doesn't turn into GNK, she just leans back and leaves him standing; you can see that Rei is still there as well. Plus, we know that Adam (Kaworu) became part of Rei when she absorbed Gendo's hand. It is plain that Rei and Kaworu are both there.

In the case of the bridge crew, however, this isn't the case at all. The phantom Reis are conveying the souls to Lilith so she can channel them into the Black Moon. There is no indication that the Phantom Reis are absorbing the souls. Wouldn't this be required for them to manifest one of them later, especially if your Rei/Kaworu analogy is to have any validity?

No, I see no reason to believe that anything else is happening other than what we are seeing. The phantom Reis have the ability to take on the image of someone in the subject's mind.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

I think you are comparing apples and oranges here. GNR doesn't turn into GNK, she just leans back and leaves him standing; you can see that Rei is still there as well. Plus, we know that Adam (Kaworu) became part of Rei when she absorbed Gendo's hand. It is plain that Rei and Kaworu are both there.

Indeed they are apples and oranges. I don't intend to make anything other than a surface level connection. It is only the nonconcreteness of facades I was refering to with the comparision.

No, I see no reason to believe that anything else is happening other than what we are seeing. The phantom Reis have the ability to take on the image of someone in the subject's mind.

And yet why do the Rei's do this? And very importantly, if they can, why do they not do so for Aoba?

When the Reis come for Aoba they do not take on the form of anyone, but also they come in multitudes.(11) Aoba has cowered under the bench here, with his jacket over his head.(12) He's not going quietly that's for sure.
[URL=http://www.imageshack.us][/URL]
All to no avail. The lead Rei places her hand upon his shoulder(13) and Aoba goes splat(14).

Now, why have the Reis come for Aoba as themselves and not as some other avatar? Did Aoba really have no one? Couldn't they have come as giant floating guitars or Jimi Hendrix? His parents, a long dead pet, a high school sweetheart? Was there nothing that could persuade him? Consider also that these Rei's appear to come naked, unlike the one that appeared to Hyuuga(2), and the rest which are clothed in school uniforms.

What is the reason for the manner in which the Rei apparitions come to Aoba?( Perhaps they are his dreamed of groupies?!) I think the reason the Rei's can only come as themselves is because there is currently no recently departed soul present that would be a suitable attractor for Aobas entry into complementation. So the Rei's have no option but to come as themselves. Is it the case that they cannot simply appear as just anything.

Also, why do they come naked? Is this another form of persuasion? Perhaps further proof that the Rei's, or whomever else is present, are trying to persuade, rather than coerce their victims into complementation. If these are not the musings of Aoba's mind, then why do they appear in such a way? Surely one would do?

[DatDude]

Maybe they are nude cuz anno likes nude 14 year old asian girls. I really think the any imagry in this scene ended with aoba not seeing a freind of loved one, and him being afraid to die.

Nude reis just are freaky and nice to look at.

[Reichu]

I am completely with Wayne and Biscuit here; the Rei messengers are not channeling anybody. (You never did address the concerns in the ANF thread about the transition guides' blatantly OOC behavior.)

As for the idea that people only see the dead, need I mention the fact that Rei 1 sees Kaworu (who was hardly dead at the time) and Rei 2 sees Gendo (who wasn't either)? And Keel didn't see anyONE at all, but a light. I'm not so sure that we really are restricted to the dead; it may just be coincidental since, well, the cast is dropping like flies at this point.

And yes, that is REALLY Kaworu, and Kaworu is NOT Shinji's 'transition guide'.

[DatDude]

For the second time in two days Im with Reichu on somthing.

Sorry man but I think your theory doen't hold water.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

I am completely with Wayne and Biscuit here; the Rei messengers are not channeling anybody. (You never did address the concerns in the ANF thread about the transition guides' blatantly OOC behavior.)

Are their actions so out of character? What exactly makes their actions preclude them being the real Misato and Ritsuko. Misato coming to carry off Hyuuga isn't so unbelievable is it? Because she still loved Kaji? She went after Shinji in #23. People do sometimes get over dead lovers.
And in any case, she needn't have been head over heels in love with Hyuuga to return in this manner. She may have only needed to fancy him, say. If after death complementation had a kind of euphoric, uninhibiting effect, then this would further explain her actions. We've all seen similar results after significant alcahol consumption in our local social gatherings after all!

As for the idea that people only see the dead, need I mention the fact that Rei 1 sees Kaworu (who was hardly dead at the time) and Rei 2 sees Gendo (who wasn't either)? And Keel didn't see anyONE at all, but a light. I'm not so sure that we really are restricted to the dead; it may just be coincidental since, well, the cast is dropping like flies at this point.

My points here are exclusively referring to the bridge crew. I think they may have been privilaged in some way, afforded a special luxury if you will. Or perhaps the recently dead souls of Misato and Ritsuko have somehow petitioned higher powers for a brief quickening to bring across one of the bridge crew, and to gain a little happiness themselves.


Might I be correct in assuming that the primary obstacle in the acceptance of the transition guides as the real person they represent, are the actions of the Ritsuko apparition. I actually think this one provides the best evidence for the apparitons being real, and I'll get to it soon. But before I do, I must ask the board's opinion on EvaOtaku's FAQ theory that Maya is a lesbian. What's the accepted view on this one? I figured it made sense, but like most things in Eva, my convinctions waver all the time.

[Soluzar]

I am completely with Wayne and Biscuit here; the Rei messengers are not channeling anybody. (You never did address the concerns in the ANF thread about the transition guides' blatantly OOC behavior.)

Are their actions so out of character?

Ritsuko, man! Come on...

But before I do, I must ask the board's opinion on EvaOtaku's FAQ theory that Maya is a lesbian. What's the accepted view on this one? I figured it made sense, but like most things in Eva, my convinctions waver all the time.

Insufficient evidence for a firm yes or no.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

Having read [URL=http://www.rahotaku.com/rahotakucaseofmayaibuki.htm]RahOtaku's Case of Maya Ibuki[/URL], a translation of the Evangelion storyboards of this scene, I'm leaning heavily onto the Maya longing after Ritsuko angle.

[Soluzar]

Having read [URL=http://www.rahotaku.com/rahotakucaseofmayaibuki.htm]RahOtaku's Case of Maya Ibuki[/URL], a translation of the Evangelion storyboards of this scene, I'm leaning heavily onto the Maya longing after Ritsuko angle.

Take care reading anything that Rah wrote. In my opinion, he goes from being the master of the obvious on minute to making connections where none existed in reality the next...

[Reichu]

Oh dear god, you're snooping around RahOtaku's place? That guy will fill your mind with poison. He posted his 'Case of Maya Ibuki' to ANF, and the relevant parts could have been summarized in two bloody sentences. RahOtaku has a gift for reiterating the blatantly obvious in as long-winded and stuffily self-assured a manner as possible. I liked Fuzzy Chickens' response, though: "Rah, I hate to break it to you, but you're not the first person to suspect that Maya is a lesbian."

In any case, Maya blatantly having the hawts for Ritsuko does not in any way support the assertion that Ritsuko would come back from the dead to tell Maya, "I need you." If you hope to buy my support, you'll have to produce more substantial currency. You're basing this theory on pure whimsy, and promoting it at the expense of the more parsimonious route.

[Soluzar]

In any case, Maya blatantly having the hawts for Ritsuko does not in any way support the assertion that Ritsuko would come back from the dead to tell Maya, "I need you." If you hope to buy my support, you'll have to produce more substantial currency. You're basing this theory on pure whimsy, and promoting it at the expense of the more parsimonious route.

I have to give you your due. That's one of the most delightfully worded refutations that I've ever heard, as well as being substantially elegant and truthful. This theory is based upon pure whimsy, and it is the sort of thing that undoubtedly draws the attention of Hexon.Arq and DatDude, when they accuse the Eva fan community of overanalysis. I had felt that their comments were aimed at least in part at me, but now I begin to feel that I see the true target.

If it's any consolation MathMan, I know you aren't the only one, but this theory really is pure speculation and whimsy. I'll admit that it can't be categorically refuted, but that does not mean that it has any chance whatsoever of being true

[sadsadshinji]

It seems that no one has brought up Misats and Ritsuko's feelings about 3I. I would believe that Misato and Ritsuko would be the last to actually join into Instrumentality, so why would they invite others to join something that they themselves disliked?
In addition, the previous posts have been pretty clear about Misato not really liking Hyuga. I'm sure its happened in fan-fics, but really, I personally dont believe that she likes him in that manner. The scene with Kaworu's descent down the shaft really cant be used as evidence towards her liking him; she puts her hand on his shoulder (I think...) in order to encourage him because of the order/request that she makes; to destroy headquarters so that Kaworu can't get to what she believes to be Adam.
To me it seems as a way for Anno to show what Instrumentality is trying to bring in a way, and also how it attracts the bridge crew (aside from Aoba).
And perhaps, Aoba has been sneaking into the reiquarium...lol

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

In any case, Maya blatantly having the hawts for Ritsuko does not in any way support the assertion that Ritsuko would come back from the dead to tell Maya, "I need you." If you hope to buy my support, you'll have to produce more substantial currency. You're basing this theory on pure whimsy, and promoting it at the expense of the more parsimonious route.

Patience, patience. I'm not just pulling thoughts out of the air. I am trying to justify my arguments with other excepts from the text, paticularly in the case of Ritsuko. However, in the case of Misato and Hyuuga, what are your thoughts on the above stated potential for a budding Misato/Hyuuga shipping in the closing arc of the story? Would this not perhaps support the possibility of Misato herself coming for him?

Now for Fuyutsuki. Another point of interest here. Unlike the rest, Fuyutsuki seems to have accepted his fate, being older I suppose and having know long since what was in store. His thoughts are on Gendou and Yui, not himself(15). We are shown that it is a Rei coming for him.(16) He is ready to go, and seemingly does not need persuasion or a fantasy to help him across.
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Now here's something very subtle and interesting. The Rei morphs into Yui(17) and once it has, look at Fuyutsuki's arm!(18 ) It raises tensed, more so as Yui moves to caress his cheek(19). Fuyutsuki is surprised here! A man expecting death has met with an unexpected sight. I think his surprise stems from the fact that this is not a product of his imagination, but rather Yui herself who has come for him, uncalled, in his final moments. He did not expect her.
Note also that he goes splat the instant she touches him(20). Carried off in a moment of joy? Surely, Fuyutsuki would have been overjoyed to see Yui in the end, and so was ready to go the instant she touched him.

We know that Yui was present in Gendou's final moments, so why would she not extend this courtesy to Fuyutsuki? We know the two were close.

It's obvious from the start that Fuyutsuki has feelings for Yui(A4), which never really fade(A9). But what of Yui's feelings? Well she did go for walks with him in the countryside(A5). We can at least say they were close aquaintances(A8 ). But what were Yui's feelings about Fuyutsuki?
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I would say that Yui deeply respected and was fond of Fuyutsuki, as a mentor and confidant. Note she always refers to him as Fuyutsuki-sensei. I would say that she respected his high moral character(A6), enough to persuade Gendou to recruit him to their cause. I would say she was also aware of his feelings for her as well(A7). Yui was ever perceptive, and perhaps regretted that she may have in some way "lead him on", though I think it was never Fuyutsuki's intention to have a real relationship with her.

In short, I think if Fuyutsuki were a few years younger, it might well have been he, and not Gendou whom Yui married. Yui was in love with Gendou, but she also loved Fuyutsuki(the other kind). Enough perhaps to come to carry him into complementation?



I'll post on Maya and Ritsuko soon. I think this apparition actually offers the biggest piece of evidence for the guides being the real persons in question. But not perhaps inn the way that you might think I think it! :E