Do MP Evas Have Souls?

[akda1ndaonly1]

Well, every Evangelion unit is supposed to have a soul to operate... right?

Would MP Evas have souls?

But I'm not sure they would need one. I mean, they are piloted through dummy plugs with Kaworu's thought pattern. (at least I think dummy plugs are thought patterns)

Also, since Kaworu was able to synch with any Eva without a soul present/dominant, if the MP Eva have no souls then the thought patterns should be sufficient to pilot them.

[K2Grey]

Well, remember that what Kaworu is capable of doing, is not necessarily what his dummy plugs are capable of doing.

Anything, it's fairly certain the MP Evas have souls because they had the ability to generate AT fields (mentioned around the time they started developing Rei faces) and it's made clear that the AT field is the barrier between souls, light of the soul/mind, etc.

In addition, if they have souls, then the part where they're stabbing themselves with their copy Spears of Longinus makes sense, because they would be releasing their souls to join Instrumentality. Whereas if they didn't, then that action would make no sense. Of course, we could always propose that SEELE had them do that for the same reason why it was necessary for them to project a humongous image of the Sephirothic system, complete with Latin writing: they're apocalyptic religious freaks and want to be dramatic :P

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

The points K2Grey makes show that indeed, the MP Evas likely do have souls. But the next question is, whose souls do they have?

Given the long term development status of the dummy plug programme, it could well be the case that the souls within are those of the mothers of some of the children in class 2-A.

[akda1ndaonly1]

Given the long term development status of the dummy plug programme, it could well be the case that the souls within are those of the mothers of some of the children in class 2-A.

Or maybe from other parts of the world since the MP Evas were built in differnt locations.

[thewayneiac]

Given the long term development status of the dummy plug programme, it could well be the case that the souls within are those of the mothers of some of the children in class 2-A.

Or maybe from other parts of the world since the MP Evas were built in differnt locations.

Yes, I think it probable that Nerv has custody of all of the Class 2-A souls, (after all, it seems that all of their parents work(ed) for Nerv) and Seele probably has no access to them.

[Hyper Shinchan]

But this units came from Germany, China and other countries of the World, it's a little strange that they came from the mothers of class 2-A.
And the Eva takes the soul of a person when he/she is inside the Eva, I think.
And those Evas don't have pilots probably.
It's hard to say HOW and FROM they took their souls.

[Zuggy]

I didn't know that the MP evas had a.t fields...
I thought it was an anti-a.t field

Or doesn't that effect this/do the mass production models need to have a soul to generate an anti-a.t field at all, seeing as the soul protects the evangelions it would be natural to assume that MP units have no soul seeing as the anti-a.t field is opposite to a 'normal' a.t field... does that make sense?

*doesn't remember seeing the hexagon shaped distortions around the MP evas*

[bp32]

I didn't know that the MP evas had a.t fields...
I thought it was an anti-a.t field

Or doesn't that effect this?

*doesn't remember seeing the hexagon shaped distortions around the MP evas*

I believe you are right. It does not appear that MPEs can generate and AT field, but rather an anti-AT field.

We never actually see the MPEs generate an ATF (one could argue that the ease with which Asuka takes them apart is an indication that they have no protective barrier to speak of--but its not conclusive...). Additionally, the only time we hear mention of an AT Field and the MPEs is when they begin generating an anti AT Field.
---------------------
From Episode 26 (from EvaOtaku.com):

SCENE: NERV Command Center

Shigeru (off screen):
The Eva series have opened up their S2 systems!

Makoto (off screen):
Dimensional values inverting! They're going negative!
Measurement impossible... Numerical expression invalid!

Fuyutsuki:
An anti-AT Field...

(Eva series form into the Sephiroticum (Tree of Life))

Maya:
All the data are just like 15 years ago!
Then... this really is... The prelude to Third Impact!
-------------------

It would also seem that the MPEs were created for the purpose of bringing about 3rd Impact and not necessarily for combat purposes. Right before the scene quoted above we hear this from SEELE:
-----------
SCENE: SEELE monoliths

SEELE 01:
At long last our hopes are to be realized.

SEELE 04:
The original Lance of Longinus has returned as well.

SEELE 09:
While somewhat fewer than planned, it will have to do.

ALL (chanting):
Return the Eva series to its rightful form.
Evangelize humankind and restore us to our true form.
With indiscriminate death and prayers, we return to our original state.

SEELE 01:
And let all souls find peace.
Now, let the sacrament begin!

(EVA-01 is crucified by the Eva series and lifted upwards)
--------------
The Eva series I believe is referring only to the MPEs. Misato hints at it here: " They plan to initiate Third Impact - not with Angels, but by using the Eva series." She also says: " Listen, Shinji... You must destroy all of the Eva series. It's the only way to stay alive." Asuka says as much when she is confronted by them at the end of Ep. 25: " The Eva series!? They've been completed?" So if the MPEs are infact the same thing as the Eva series (and not the previous 4 Evas) then I think we can argue that they were designed without the ability to generate an AT Field--because it would be unecessary--and instead have the ability to generate an anti-AT Field so that they can initiate 3rd Impact. That is their true form and purpose.

[K2Grey]

In response,

---------------------
From Episode 26 (from EvaOtaku.com):

SCENE: NERV Command Center

Shigeru:
The Eva series' AT Fields are resonating!

Makoto:
And amplifying further!

Fuyutsuki:
Has the assimilation with Rei begun?

(Eva series take Rei's laughing faces... Shinji/EVA-01 scream and EVA-01's core is exposed... Shinji clutches futilely at the controls)
-------------------

It seems pretty clear that the Eva series (why the term 'MP Evas', anyway?) have AT fields.

[bp32]

In response,

---------------------
From Episode 26 (from EvaOtaku.com):

SCENE: NERV Command Center

Shigeru:
The Eva series' AT Fields are resonating!

Makoto:
And amplifying further!

Fuyutsuki:
Has the assimilation with Rei begun?

(Eva series take Rei's laughing faces... Shinji/EVA-01 scream and EVA-01's core is exposed... Shinji clutches futilely at the controls)
-------------------

It seems pretty clear that the Eva series (why the term 'MP Evas', anyway?) have AT fields.

Damn, thwarted by the find button :x --for some reason it wasn't picking up this line--I remembered something about resonance but couldn't find it. It doesn't seem to make sense though--if they had AT Field's why not deploy them against Asuka? It would have made it harder for her to do such damage--then again, we wouldn't have had the shock and distress at watching them regenerate I guess.

Also, the scene quoted above takes place after they creat an anti-AT Field--something to think about is whether this should be possible--can you still have an AT Field if you are also generating an Anti-AT Field? Well, I guess in the world of Eva you can

MP for Mass Production Evas to differentiate them from the previous 4 models

[sir_evangelist]

The anti-atf field must be originated somewhere, in the s2

Shigeru (off screen):
The Eva series have opened up their S2 systems!

Makoto (off screen):
Dimensional values inverting! They're going negative!
Measurement impossible... Numerical expression invalid!

Fuyutsuki:
An anti-AT Field...

Now, if there´s no atf for the organ, how can it make an anti-atf? If the s2 organ has no shape, the organ doesn´t exists. That is why the cientists wanted to create an anti-atf around adam, so as to stop his atf.

[bp32]

The anti-atf field must be originated somewhere, in the s2

Shigeru (off screen):
The Eva series have opened up their S2 systems!

Makoto (off screen):
Dimensional values inverting! They're going negative!
Measurement impossible... Numerical expression invalid!

Fuyutsuki:
An anti-AT Field...

Now, if there´s no atf for the organ, how can it make an anti-atf? If the s2 organ has no shape, the organ doesn´t exists. That is why the cientists wanted to create an anti-atf around adam, so as to stop his atf.

I think they were trying to stop his anti-AT Field---since 2nd impact was the same thing as 3rd impact (remember the readings are the same according to the dialogue in EoE) Adam most likely unleashed his own S2 organ and created an anti-AT field which caused all the destruction (notice how in the series the water looks like the LCL at the end of EoE). The problem is it is quite confusing--the dialogue of the scientists--so you can't make out who or what is generating AT/anti-AT Fields--anyone have a clear theory/answer/explanation to this one??

Also, I don't think anyone would claim that the organ itself has an AT Field, but that the being the organ is in must have one for it to maintain its shape--this would suggest that the Eva series has at least some ability to generate a field--albeit a weak one that can at a minimum 'hold it together'---still puzzled by this though...

[sadsadshinji]

Damn, someone beat me to the point about the resonance...
I must point out that there have been examples of combat between the angels and the evas where the AT field has only been deployed as a last resort (look at Sachiel and Zeruel). Thus, the combat between Asuka and the MP evas cannot be used to judge the presence (or lack) of AT field capability. The probable reason for the lack of AT field usage was because the MP evas were somewhat (if not totally) lacking in IQ (it seemed as though they only had some basic battle training, but nothing complex).
Considering the fact that the MP evas had been in construction for some time (Misato (or was it Hyuga) mentions after the battle with Zeruel that parts they used to repair the damage done to 02 were originally designed for the MP evas), it is entirely possible that the souls within the MP evas were from the mothers of the 2-A class (I am, however, unclear of NERV's role in their production, as they were constructed in semi-secret). Perhaps they also contain some souls that SEELE decided to gather from other staff...

[AchtungAffen]

When they tell the ATF resonance line, this image appears. I guess we can take those spheres as one of the forms an ATF can take. Besides, later we can see a computer monitor that clearly says "A.T.Field STATUS EVA-06", for example.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

Just as a point of note, it would appear that the Eva's AT Fields are responsible for more than just the octagonal shaped orange barriers seen from time to time. It's most likely that some of the Evas and Angels more fantastic stunts are in some way attributable to their AT Fields.

I would think that levitation skills in paticular would be somehow AT Field based, and though the MP Evas have wings, they are far too flimsy to hold them aloft. We later see actual levitation from them anyway. So I'd say they do indeed have AT Fields.

[Oblivious]

We are in murky waters.

One thing I do know is that it is unlikely that Units One and Two received a soul through a planned procedure with the intention of gifting the Evas with a soul.

For one, I do not believe Gendo capable of sacrificing Yui, however, whether or not that 'Incident' was a unilateral decision by Yui is arguable. Still, judging from her character, I would expect her to leave a note or similiar. I wonder how difficult it would be for her to leave her family since she was looking forward so much to it.

As for Kyoko, if she knew what was going to happen to, her insanity, Asuka's traumatisation(sp?), I doubt she would have supported the project that strongly. The question here is whether she was willing to use her own soul to imbue the Eva with a soul.

Sure, the pilots would require a proper matching soul, but were there not other candidates? Would it be feasible to sacrifice your most able scientists for this?

The point I am trying to suggest here is that the Evas receiving a soul were no more than accidents, and that the 'Soul' being a prerequisite for the production of an A.T field was not fully understood by SEELE or NERV. Therefore it is unlikely that SEELE arranged for the MP Evas to have souls.

As for whether or not the Evas can operate without a Soul... insufficent information*. Sadamoto does not have this problem though. =P

*I am probably just being lazy again.

[Shin-seiki]

It's very well established that (in the DC/Death/EoE continuity, at least) Yui intentionally went thru with the Unit-01 Contact Experiment anticipating and accepting the supposedly accidental "tragic' outcome:
http://animenation.net/forums/showthread.php?t=131373

As for Kyoko/Unit-02, there is much less to go on regarding whether that was intentional on anyone's part (she may well have been an unwitting sacrifice)

[Zuggy]

Deleted.

[K2Grey]

Well, whether or not the souls of Yui or Kyoko were intentionally put into the Evas doesn't necessarily affect whether SEELE would place souls in the MP Evas. Once they found out that you need the soul for the AT field, and you need the soul in there to get the Eva to work right, etc. exactly what happened in the past is more irrelevant.

As for the Spear of Longinus, I used to have my own pet theory about it: if it's Adam's S2 (although NGE2 contradicts that), and the AT field divides you from others, maybe the reason why the SoL goes through the Angels' and Evas' AT fields is because they're all derived from Adam, and thus they can't muster up a meaningful barrier against Adam himself. After all, after a while it gets hard to hold absolute terror of your own Source of Life.

[TsubasaNoKoikokoro]

Well, It is possible that when Yui was inside Unit 001. She was told to spread the AT field. But because the Eva had no AT field, it took hers thus turning her into LCT fluid(because when a human loses it's AT field it becomes LCT fluid, we learn this in EoE) THis would explain how Nerv discovered LCT and how the AT fields join with the Eva.

As for the mass-production. They do have Anti-At Fields.